Past Seasons

Title: From Civil Engineering to City Hall: Abena Sackey Ojetayo ‘07, ‘09

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

We are here today with Abena Ojetayo, a Cornell graduate with a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering with a focus on sustainability and infrastructure, and a master’s degree in engineering management. She is now a local government executive in Tallahassee, Florida, where her work intersects sustainability, equity, and community-building. We are eager to hear more.

Christa: Abena, thank you so much for joining us today.

Abena: Thank you so much for having me, Christa.

Christa: It’s a pleasure.

Traci: Well, I get to start today’s questioning. We wanted to know currently, because we were very intrigued about the crossover that you’ve experienced in your career, what you’re doing at your current work, and how it relates to the degrees that you got at Cornell?

Abena: Well, I never would have imagined it. If you told me years ago that I would be here, I probably wouldn’t have believed you. I work in local government, as Christa mentioned, and I’m an Assistant City Manager, currently, and previously a director. I started in local government as the Chief Resilience Officer, which was more familiar to me.

As a Chief Resilience Officer for a city, you work with leadership and multiple stakeholders, both internal to the organization and in the broader community, to develop a strategy for how the community would deal with disruption, shocks, and stressors. This includes everything from identifying root causes of disruptions to planning future mitigation or adaptation for a new normal. The Chief Resilience Officer role is relatively new but closely related to sustainability officers and sustainability managers.

I’ve always been interested in this work as an engineer. I meandered through multiple sectors but have always followed the idea of stewardship—taking care of what we have while looking ahead to future challenges. Sustainability work often centers around the natural environment and climate, particularly climate adaptation and mitigation. Resilience planning builds on that by focusing on disruption and disaster preparedness. It influences how we organize ourselves, build cities, and develop programs to address systemic issues so that our communities can thrive.

That’s how we weave sustainability, equity, and community into this work. I’ve always been drawn to building better communities, which led me to engineering—specifically civil engineering. Out of all the fields, civil engineering is the one that most directly influences the physical structure of society at a visible scale, and that was incredibly attractive to me from an early age. Cornell nurtured that passion and allowed me to connect disparate pieces that didn’t always seem to align. That experience set me up for my current work, where I frequently bridge gaps and make connections that aren’t always obvious.

Christa: What does that look like on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis? What are the things on your to-do list, and what are some projects you’ve worked on recently?

Abena: As a Chief Resilience Officer, which I no longer wear exclusively but is still very much part of my work, a lot of my focus was on worst-case scenarios and crisis preparation. While that may sound daunting, I found it to be an essential starting point. Understanding the worst-case scenario helps ground discussions and encourages proactive problem-solving.

There’s something about the urgency of crisis that brings people together in new ways. That’s how resilience work connects sustainability and community well-being. It’s all about preparing for disruptions while ensuring that everyone in the community can thrive.

Day to day, my work varies widely. One day I may be working with multiple departments to develop our clean energy future. Our city is transitioning to 100% net renewable energy, which requires significant planning for utility conversion and fleet electrification. We operate our own electric, gas, water, and wastewater utilities, which gives us the ability to execute this transition.

On another day, I might be facilitating a mental health crisis response unit. Through resilience planning, we identified adverse community experiences and childhood trauma as root causes of disruptions in public safety. That led us to create innovative partnerships among social workers, law enforcement, and human service providers to respond to 911 emergencies together.

My role as an executive is to bring teams together, lead strategic planning, and secure resources so that our teams can do their work effectively. I get to think of ambitious ideas, see people’s shocked reactions, and then work alongside them to make those ideas reality. It’s incredibly rewarding.

Traci: I’m fascinated by this intersection you’re at. I’ve worked with UN disaster management teams, but I really appreciate your reframing—shifting from disaster management to resilience planning. That wider lens, integrating sustainability and mental health into public safety, is incredible.

Abena: It’s encouraging to see federal and state governments waking up to the importance of mitigation. Emergency response is critical, but it’s expensive—not just in terms of lives and property but also in time and resources. FEMA has found that every dollar spent on mitigation saves six dollars in emergency response and recovery. It makes economic sense to invest in resilience planning.

That said, crises can also unleash creativity. When communities face multiple shocks—whether from climate disasters, public safety issues, or racial unrest—it forces them to rethink business as usual. These moments push us to innovate.

Christa: I love that framing. This is such important work. Is this type of resilience-focused role becoming more common in local government?

Abena: Not as common as we would like. The Chief Resilience Officer role started trending about five or six years ago, with support from groups like the Rockefeller Foundation. At its peak, there were only about 100 worldwide, which is very small considering the thousands of cities globally.

Our city created the position after a devastating hurricane that revealed weaknesses in our emergency response systems. We have an enormous urban tree canopy—something we cherish—but about 50% of our utilities are above ground. A category one hurricane took out significant portions of our electric infrastructure, leading to long outages. Instead of merely rebuilding, we took a comprehensive approach and started planning for long-term resilience.

Similarly, public safety concerns had been a top issue in our community for years. Our law enforcement is known for its community-oriented policing, but national conversations on public safety pushed us to be even more proactive. In local government, it’s impossible to isolate any single issue. Everything is interconnected.

More cities are now doing resilience planning alongside climate adaptation and sustainability plans. Universities were early leaders in sustainability efforts, but today, local governments are taking the lead because they’re the closest to the people. The tangible, everyday impacts of resilience planning make it a priority for more communities.

Christa: That’s inspiring. Abena, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you for sharing your insights and the tangible impact of your work.

Abena: Thank you so much. It’s a privilege to do this work, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it.

Traci: Thank you for your time today. This has been an incredibly thought-provoking conversation.

Abena: No squirrels or mosquitoes were harmed in the recording of this podcast, though I thought long and hard about it.

Christa: Join us for the next episode, where we will celebrate excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Creating Technology for Sustainable Food Production: Matthew Gellert ‘17

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Welcome, Matt.

Matt Gellert: Thanks.

Christa: Yeah, it’s good to have you. I’m going to introduce you. Matt is a Biosystems Engineering Manager for Square Roots, an urban farming company based in Brooklyn, New York. He studied Biological Engineering at Cornell University and Software Engineering at Flatiron School before going to work in the agriculture industry, first for AeroFarms and now for Square Roots. So Matt, can you tell us more about your work?

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Christa. So at Square Roots, we design, build, own, and operate indoor vertical farms. We are a vertically integrated vertical farming company. We are working to develop a distributed network of lean farms that sell high-value, high-quality, and high-impact products.

I lead the hardware engineering team. We design productive, space-efficient systems that can be manufactured and commissioned quickly and affordably. We partner with food distributors like Gordon Food Service and UNFI. We build our farms directly on their campuses, minimizing cold chain transportation impact and providing us access to their network and resources.

My team develops all the growing systems, operational tools, automation equipment integrations, and modifications. We collaborate with nearly every department—plant R&D to optimize grow recipes, farm teams for feedback and technical support, software engineers to optimize farm control, and manufacturing teams to scale designs from prototypes to production. We love making elegant and functional designs come to life using 3D printers, metal and plastic fabricators, and machine tools.

Traci: Coming from a farming community in Southern Idaho, I’ve seen the rise of indoor agricultural ventures. Can you walk people through what differentiates your indoor agricultural model from traditional farming and where you see it going?

Matt: Absolutely. The biggest differences are ones you’ll hear from anyone in the industry—we use significantly less water, usually 90% or more less than traditional agriculture, and significantly less fertilizer. We avoid soil degradation, biodiversity loss, runoff, and pesticide use. Additionally, we can grow year-round in almost any climate using artificial lighting.

Another key advantage is nutritional content. Our produce is fresher—it’s harvested and on the shelf the same day, sometimes in hours. Additionally, crops are grown under ideal conditions with tailored genetics, enhancing their quality.

Energy use is an important factor. While indoor farming requires non-solar energy inputs, studies show that when traditional agriculture produce travels over 1,000 miles, the energy used in transportation balances out the energy used in a controlled indoor environment. Most produce travels at least 1,500 miles to reach consumers, making controlled environments a competitive alternative.

Traci: The intersection of these sciences is fascinating. You have both software and bioengineering experience—how did you arrive at this unique combination?

Matt: I studied Biological Engineering at Cornell. At the time, the program was transitioning—today, it’s more biomedical, but agricultural engineering is regaining prominence.

I gained exposure through faculty mentors like Dr. Michael Timmons, a pioneer in aquaculture and aquaponics. Renting space in a Cornell greenhouse gave me hands-on experience. I also interned at a venture capital firm, analyzing tech investments, which exposed me to early industry leaders like AeroFarms, Bowery, and Plenty.

One particularly formative experience was a class called Entrepreneurial Management for Engineers. Our class collectively wrote a business plan and designed an aquaponics farm to support an orphanage in Chile. I led the engineering team and gained exposure to design, social impact, and business development. The multi-disciplinary nature of the work really appealed to me.

Traci: You likely worked with Dr. Rick Evans on the aquaponics project. That was an amazing initiative with lasting impact.

Matt: Absolutely. That project was a fantastic experience on multiple levels and helped steer my career.

Christa: Your resume and experience are impressive. What would you recommend to undergrads or M.Eng. students interested in this field?

Matt: Start by growing something. Buy a basic hydroponics kit and experiment. It helps you understand the system and identify what interests you most—whether it’s electrical, automation, genetics, or environmental controls.

If you’re interested in the electrical side, you might get into Raspberry Pi or Arduino for control systems. If you’re curious about plant science, you’ll focus on genetics and optimal growing conditions. Curiosity will naturally guide you toward a specialty.

Traci: You’ve highlighted various skills. Are there specific experiences or activities you’d recommend to undergraduates?

Matt: Computer-aided design (CAD) and engineering software are invaluable. We use them for mechanical simulations, fluid simulations, HVAC modeling—so much can be optimized digitally before physical prototyping.

Additionally, exposure to food production and biology helps, but it’s not essential. This industry is multi-disciplinary—mechanical, electrical, software, biological engineering, business, and marketing all play a role. There’s room for everyone with an interest in the field.

Christa: Your work contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and sustainable world. What’s your vision for the future?

Matt: The industry aims to reduce food waste, lower the carbon footprint, and produce food closer to where it’s needed, particularly in food deserts. Many people in the U.S. lack access to fresh, nutritious food. We want to supply it sustainably—not replacing traditional farming, but supplementing it.

We’re expanding beyond leafy greens and herbs into tomatoes, strawberries, and other crops. Another issue is the aging farming workforce—the average farmer is over 60, and younger generations are less inclined to take over farms. Indoor agriculture offers skilled job opportunities that integrate technology, attracting a new generation to agriculture.

Ultimately, our goal is to produce more nutritious, fresh food in a sustainable way.

Traci: That’s an inspiring vision. The generational divide in farming is a critical issue, and I appreciate you shining a light on it. What people and organizations are important collaborators for you?

Matt: I follow research from academia—Cornell’s Neil Mattson, Dr. Chieri Kubota at Ohio State, and Bruce Bugbee at Utah State. They share valuable insights on platforms like YouTube. AgSci Café by Dr. Kubota is a great resource.

There are also industry conferences like Indoor AgCon and regional agricultural consortiums where professionals exchange ideas and innovations.

Traci: We’ll share some of those resources for our listeners. What was the biggest challenge you’ve faced in your work?

Matt: I joined Square Roots on March 9, 2020—right before the COVID-19 lockdowns. Two days later, most of the company went remote. We had just begun designing a major new farming system, and the sudden disruption affected supply chains, workforce coordination, and production timelines.

We had to pivot—finding alternative materials, redesigning parts based on availability, and coordinating with contractors remotely. I spent months in Michigan overseeing farm commissioning. That project is now in production, but navigating the uncertainty of COVID-19 was a major challenge.

Traci: Looking back to your sophomore year, what do you wish you had known then?

Matt: Try different internships and extracurriculars. Even if they seem unrelated, they add up and help clarify what excites you.

Also, consider software bootcamps. I attended Flatiron School for 15 weeks, which gave me strong software skills applicable to automation and controls engineering. Bootcamps are a great investment, even for students still in college.

Traci: That’s great advice. If you weren’t doing this work, what would you be doing?

Matt: As a child, I wanted to work in automotive engineering. But growing up in a rural town, I developed a deep connection to agriculture. If I weren’t in indoor farming, I’d probably run a traditional farm or a hybrid of indoor and outdoor systems.

Long term, I want to build a prototyping workshop to help others develop their products. But I’ll always stay connected to agriculture.

Christa: That’s an exciting vision. Thank you, Matt!

Traci: Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.

Matt: Anytime—come visit a Square Roots farm!

Christa: Thank you for listening. Join us for the next episode, where we’ll celebrate engineers driving a more sustainable world.

Title: From Future Doc to Healthcare Industry Disruptor: Alice Yan ‘19, ‘20

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today we’re here with Alice, who graduated from Cornell with an undergraduate degree in biomedical engineering as well as an MEng in mechanical engineering. Alice, welcome.

Alice Yan: Hi, Christa, so nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Christa: It’s great to have you. Alice, can you please start by telling us a bit about your career path and how you transitioned from engineering to regulation?

Alice: Yeah. I guess it started out from the very beginning. I’ve always wanted to do something in the healthcare industry. In high school, I wanted to be a doctor because that’s the only thing that you think of when you think healthcare at a young age, not knowing much about the world. It wasn’t until the tail end of high school that I learned about biomedical engineering. I realized that biomedical engineers were the brains behind the cool technologies that doctors use, and I wanted to be the person to create those technologies.

I was fortunate with timing—just before my freshman year, Cornell officially announced biomedical engineering as a major. I was super excited. I later pursued an MEng in mechanical engineering because I wanted more specialized experience in R&D.

Where everything started to change was during my MEng when I realized that engineering didn’t suit my personality and career ambitions. At first, I was really worried—had I wasted five years and my parents’ hard-earned money on something I didn’t want to do anymore? I tried to make it work, but I realized it wasn’t worth it if I wasn’t fulfilled. I learned that it was okay to try something new.

I did various internships and co-ops at medical device companies, still knowing I wanted to be in healthcare. I explored clinical research, quality, and product management—everything I could think of. At the end, I worried that my resume was fragmented, with no clear story. But then I realized that my story was about trying different things to find what I was truly passionate about.

My first full-time job out of college was at Abbott in their medical device division. It was in regulatory operations—again, something new. I enjoyed regulatory work because it was complex, especially international regulations. I realized I loved solving challenging problems, digesting complicated requirements, and creating efficient processes.

However, something always bothered me at Abbott. It was difficult to make improvements and changes. I’m not someone who can sit still—if a process isn’t efficient or a system is broken, I want to fix it. But at a large company like Abbott, where processes have existed for decades, change is difficult. After two years, I decided to try working at a startup, which led me to where I am today.

Traci: I love that, Alice—the complications of finding fulfillment along the way. It can be very hard, especially when, as you said, the path seems fragmented.

Alice: Yeah, I think a lot of times, especially in college, you assume that what you major in is what you’re supposed to do for the rest of your life. So stepping outside of that can be really scary.

Traci: I often tell my engineering students that engineering is a systems way of thinking. You highlighted that when you described seeing the larger system and how to fix problems within it. You mentioned leaving Abbott—how did you find your way to your new role?

Alice: I had heard of Forward before. To back up, I now work at Forward, a health tech startup. I keep a note on my phone with my dream companies, and Forward was on that list because I admired its mission to fix the U.S. healthcare system.

When I saw a job opening for compliance operations, I thought, this is my dream job. I was passionate about the mission, felt qualified, and had experience under my belt, so I applied.

The interview process was a great indicator of what it would be like to work there. I expected stress, but I actually looked forward to every interaction. If you don’t enjoy the interview process, you probably wouldn’t enjoy working at that company—and that’s okay.

One of the final rounds involved a case study presentation. I was on vacation at the time, but I got so sucked into the project that I spent the entire vacation in my hotel room working on it. I didn’t have to—I could’ve worked on it for a few hours—but the problems were so interesting, and I realized I was having fun. I couldn’t remember the last time I had fun working. That was a huge indicator that I would enjoy the job.

Christa: I love that concept of enjoying your work so much that you get lost in it. Not that we want people to skip vacations! But having that level of engagement is a great sign.

Speaking of inspiration, I’d love to hear how your work contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Alice: Forward’s mission is to build the world’s best healthcare for billions—for free. Full stop. The best addresses quality, billions implies scale, and free tackles accessibility. It’s an ambitious goal, and we know it will take time, but that’s what every single person here is working toward.

Our current model is a $149-per-month subscription for unlimited in-person and telemedicine primary and preventive care. A key tenet is that we don’t take insurance. We believe the current insurance-based healthcare system creates the wrong incentives. Right now, most care is reactive—you only go to the doctor when something is wrong. There’s no financial incentive to keep people healthy.

At Forward, primary care is a flat fee, so you get the support you need—whether that’s one visit a year or every day. It’s about building long-term relationships.

Another key difference is how we leverage technology. In most service industries, costs rise over time. In contrast, technology gets cheaper and is scalable. We use AI and automation to improve care, allowing clinicians to focus on higher-level decision-making rather than administrative tasks.

Traci: That’s fascinating. Forward is clearly a disruptor. Do you feel that sense of disruption and urgency at work?

Alice: Every day. Our office culture is intense but mission-driven. We’re fully in-person, which fosters collaboration.

We also have no hierarchy—no managers, directors, or C-suite. Everyone is on the same level. We treat each other as peers, regardless of experience.

The decision-making process is also unique. We debate ideas rigorously but don’t own them. If my idea isn’t the best, I want to know—because our goal is to find the best solution, not to protect our egos. That’s a mindset shift from traditional workplaces.

Christa: You’ve found fulfilling work in a collaborative, mission-driven organization. What have been your greatest challenges?

Alice: Learning how to be a leader. At Abbott, I was mostly executing. At Forward, I drive decisions. That shift—from following instructions to creating processes—was challenging.

Another challenge is uncertainty. At a big company, everything is well-defined. At a startup, resources are limited, and no one necessarily knows the answers. You have to become the expert. Learning to embrace uncertainty has been key.

Traci: Looking back, what do you wish you knew as a sophomore?

Alice: I wish I had known that careers aren’t linear. Do what excites you, not just what you majored in. It’s okay to pivot. Life is about discovery.

Christa: Final question—if you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Alice: Probably deejaying! I started during COVID and love it. But for now, I’m focused on Forward’s mission.

Christa: Love it! Thank you, Alice, for this insightful conversation.

Alice: Thank you for having me!

Title: Revolutionizing Battery Technology: Nidhi Maniar ‘22

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today we are with Nidhi Maniar, Cornell class of 2022 with a Chemical Engineering master’s degree. Nidhi is a battery engineer. Welcome.

Nidhi Maniar: Hi, Christa. Thank you so much for a great introduction.

Christa: It’s great to see you. We are excited to share your story. We had a great conversation the other day, and I’m excited for others to learn more about the work you do.

Traci: Well, this is Traci, and I guess I will get us started today. Can you give us a little bit of background about what it is exactly you do at Amazon as a battery engineer? Let’s just start there.

Nidhi: Sure. At Amazon, a battery engineer is someone who has a deep understanding of battery chemistry and mechanisms. They are responsible for optimizing battery performance and ensuring safety and reliability in devices.

Traci: I always think of Amazon as just an online retailer. How is Amazon deploying batteries and why do they need your expertise?

Nidhi: Amazon has a devices sector, including Lab126, where products like tablets, e-readers, and Ring home security devices are developed. All these devices use lithium-ion or other battery chemistries, and we need to ensure they are safe and reliable for customer use. Right now, Amazon’s primary focus in this space is consumer electronics.

Traci: That’s a great explanation. Thank you for that. You’re a new graduate and have been at Amazon for a little while now. What do you enjoy most about your work?

Nidhi: There are three things I enjoy the most. First, the cross-functional collaboration at Amazon. I work closely with the thermal, mechanical, and firmware teams, and I get to learn a lot from different perspectives.

Second, the curiosity of learning new things. Since I recently graduated, there’s so much I still need to learn. It’s fascinating how such small battery cells can be so complex.

Third, the feeling of making a difference in society by being part of the battery revolution that is transforming the world.

Christa: Say more about that revolution.

Nidhi: Companies are trying to become greener, focusing on higher energy density batteries. Eventually, we will transition from oil and gas to electric vehicles and battery-based energy solutions.

Christa: For someone interested in this work, what resources would you recommend?

Nidhi: If you’re interested in battery engineering, the role varies from company to company. I recommend reaching out to Cornell Engineering Career Services if you’re still figuring out what you like—they were instrumental in guiding me.

Networking is also key. Connect with people on CUeLINKS and LinkedIn to learn more about different roles. Cornell offers many resources beyond this, so students should take full advantage of them.

Christa: Are there any particular courses or projects that students should try to prepare for this type of work?

Nidhi: If you’re looking to become a battery engineer, working on battery-related projects is essential. Getting hands-on experience in chemistry fundamentals will help.

Cornell has many energy-related courses that are useful. Additionally, I highly recommend the management writing course offered by the Johnson School. Writing skills are critical in any industry.

Christa: Can you say more about how you use your writing skills?

Nidhi: Writing is highly valued at Amazon. For example, when writing an email, you don’t want to overwhelm the reader with too much information. The high-level overview should be clear enough that someone can grasp the key takeaways in a few seconds.

As an engineer, you may underestimate the importance of writing until you take a structured course and realize how much you can improve.

Traci: That’s great to hear. Writing and communication are essential skills for engineers. You were in Chemical Engineering, correct?

Nidhi: Yes.

Traci: They try to handle technical communication in-house, but I love that you sought additional training in writing.

I want to ask you about job searching and networking as a new graduate. Can you walk us through your experience with that?

Nidhi: Sure. The first thing in a job search is to focus on the role you want instead of applying randomly to hundreds of companies. It’s more effective to apply to 10–15 targeted companies and tailor your resume for each one.

Also, instead of applying directly on websites, network with employees from those companies. Ask for feedback on your resume and build a conversation before requesting a referral.

Another important aspect is avoiding comparisons. Everyone has their own journey, and it’s crucial not to get discouraged if someone else finds a job before you.

Traci: I really appreciate that perspective. Networking is important—did you primarily use online tools like LinkedIn and CUeLINKS?

Nidhi: Yes, CUeLINKS was very helpful. The Cornell alumni network is amazing—alumni are generally willing to help if you reach out politely. Also, attending local networking events can be beneficial.

Christa: What else do you think is important for the audience to know?

Nidhi: One key insight I’ve gained is that companies appreciate deep fundamental knowledge more than overly complex projects. Having strong basics is often more valuable than trying to impress with complexity.

Traci: That’s a great perspective. Let’s step into a time machine and go back to when you were a sophomore. What advice would you give yourself?

Nidhi: I would have done more networking and built relationships with Cornellians early on. I also would have taken advantage of career center resources sooner instead of waiting until my final years.

Traci: Does networking happen in projects and coursework, or are there other opportunities?

Nidhi: Networking happens everywhere, including working with students from different departments. But the key is maintaining long-term relationships, not just reaching out when you need something.

Christa: That’s such an important point. Networking isn’t just about asking for favors—it’s about building real relationships.

Traci: Networking should be reciprocal. As an early-career professional, how do you give back to mentors or those who helped you?

Nidhi: You can support them in return. If they have projects where they need assistance, offer to help. It’s a great way to build relationships while gaining experience.

Traci: That’s a wonderful approach. Now for a fun question—what do you do to relax or re-energize?

Nidhi: California has beautiful scenery, so I love taking my painting canvas and colors to the beach or mountains to paint. It’s very relaxing.

Traci: That’s amazing! Do you have a collection of paintings at home?

Nidhi: Yes, I do!

Christa: What’s one place you go to stay current in your work?

Nidhi: Reading research papers helps me stay informed about new developments in battery technology. Even if something isn’t scalable yet, knowing the possibilities helps shape future innovation.

Traci: Do you also look at patents?

Nidhi: Sometimes, but patents are often written in a way that hides critical details. Companies protect trade secrets, so patents provide general ideas but not full solutions.

Traci: If you weren’t doing this work, what would you be doing?

Nidhi: As a child, I wanted to be a painter. My long-term dream is to live in a European city and paint. But for now, I love my job because I know I’m making a real impact.

Christa: I love that sustainability and safety are central to your work. Thank you so much for this conversation.

Nidhi: Thank you, Christa and Traci.

Traci: We wish you all the best, and thank you for your time.

Christa: Join us for the next episode, where we’ll celebrate engineers contributing to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Ensuring Safe, Clean Water: Jessica Olsen ‘21

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today we have Jessica Olsen, who graduated in 2021 with a bachelor’s degree in civil and environmental engineering. Jessica is currently an infrastructure design engineer for the U.S. Air Force and tutors local community college students in math and chemistry. Welcome, Jessica.

Jessica Olsen: Hi, thank you for having me.

Christa: Our pleasure. Jessica, can you please talk with us about the work that you are currently doing?

Jessica: Sure. Right now, I am working under the Palace Acquire program through the U.S. Air Force. I work as an infrastructure design engineer for potable water systems. I’m currently stationed at Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst in central New Jersey. The base is really interesting because it has Army, Navy, FBI, and Air Force all located on the same base.

I’m responsible for designing the infrastructure that allows us to get water out of our taps. Anytime there’s a rupture in a line or new construction is happening, I go in and design how that water gets from our water treatment facilities to our buildings. I’m also undergoing a water quality study to improve the quality of water we provide to everyone on base.

Christa: I love it.

Traci: We were interested in how you got to this spot. Let’s go back in time a little bit. Engineering training at Cornell was no doubt rigorous, but can you explore for us what it’s like to transition from being a student into being a practicing professional?

Jessica: Sure. I participated in the co-op partnership while I was at Cornell, and it was really influential for me to take a break in my education and understand what an office environment is like. I did my co-op with Langdon Engineering and Environmental Services, which is a private consulting firm. That was a different experience compared to my government practice now. In private consulting, we were the client, contracted to do work all over the country—building Amazon warehouses in Colorado, monitoring landfills in New Jersey.

Now, working for the government, we are the owners, able to execute whatever work is needed. The transition from education to working full-time has been really interesting because, in school, you have short-term goals—assignments, exams, and semesters. But now, I’m working on years-long projects, so I’ve had to shift from short-term thinking to long-term planning.

Traci: As an instructor, that’s a really interesting point. In school, learning is structured, but now you have to be self-directed. How do you choose where to focus your time in staying up to date?

Jessica: I’ve joined a lot of email lists from universities whose research interests me. They send out monthly reports on what they’re doing in their labs, and I find that really informative. By the time research makes its way into the public via news, textbooks, or professional society magazines, it could be years old. So I think it’s important to stay connected to those original sources of information.

Traci: That’s such a great point. There’s a lag time in how knowledge gets disseminated, and keeping up with real-time research is critical.

Christa: I love that. That’s great for our faculty and students to hear, especially those considering undergraduate research. Speaking of students, you tutor at a community college. What do you find invigorating and challenging about that work?

Jessica: The biggest challenge is the lingering effects of pandemic-style learning. Students who struggled with online learning are now facing difficulties in their more advanced courses. For example, a student might be taking calculus but struggling with pre-calc concepts.

As a tutor, I have to think deeply about the progression of a math or chemistry education and identify those missing building blocks. It’s also a humbling experience—I’ve realized that as professionals, we often skip over steps in our head without thinking about the foundations.

Many of the students I work with are balancing full-time jobs and families, taking classes at night, and still reaching for education. It’s inspiring to be part of that journey.

Traci: That’s such important and valuable work. What motivated you to choose community college tutoring?

Jessica: I’ve taken classes there since high school. Even during my summer breaks at Cornell, I took courses in topics I didn’t have time to explore—environmental science, psychology, philosophy.

Now that I’m back home and working full-time, I found myself with empty space in my schedule. In school, there’s always another assignment to work on, but now I have time to explore anything I want. Tutoring was a way for me to reconnect with my community and give back to an institution that helped me for so many years.

Traci: That’s such a generous and growth-oriented mindset. I love it.

Christa: Thinking back to yourself as a high school student or an early-year Cornell student, what do you wish you knew back then?

Jessica: I wish I had known that it’s okay to take time to make decisions. I felt pressured by the semester system—like I had to figure everything out within four years.

Looking back, I was so focused on finishing my classes, joining research labs, and being involved that I didn’t reflect as much on personal growth. Education isn’t just about checking boxes—it’s about understanding your goals and being okay with adjusting them along the way.

Christa: What do you think about when envisioning your future career?

Jessica: I’m really interested in going back to graduate school. I’ve applied for master’s programs for the upcoming academic year, focusing on hands-on research in water quality.

Right now, my job is a mix of design work on the computer and fieldwork seeing actual construction. But I loved being in the lab during undergrad, and I want to go back to that. Whether it’s studying emerging contaminants or water management, I want to transition into research and, hopefully, a role with the Department of Defense in environmental research or coastal resilience projects.

Traci: How does working on long-term projects in your field shift the way you approach problem-solving?

Jessica: It requires balancing past knowledge with rapidly emerging research. We’re at a pivotal point in water policy—learning about contaminants like PFAS that have been used for decades but only recently understood to be harmful.

Regulations are evolving, and my work requires staying on top of federal updates. Water projects are never really “done”—they evolve as science and policy change.

Christa: Your openness to learning and adapting is inspiring. What organizations are key collaborators in your field?

Jessica: Water policy is unique because there’s a federal umbrella through the EPA, but individual states have their own regulations. States like New Jersey and California are leaders in progressive water policies, but not all states regulate contaminants the same way.

Private organizations, like the World Health Organization and various water initiatives, also influence regulations. The level of protection people receive depends on where they live, and that’s something I think about a lot in my work.

Traci: What’s been the biggest challenge in your work?

Jessica: The unknown health risks of emerging contaminants. PFAS, for example, accumulates in the body and doesn’t degrade in the environment. We’re still developing technology to break these chemicals down into non-harmful components, but full implementation could take decades.

Christa: What advice would you give students interested in your path?

Jessica: Try a co-op or internship. It’s invaluable to get real-world exposure and understand what’s possible in your field.

Christa: What do you do to relax?

Jessica: I love dance, Pilates, and spending time by the ocean—even if it’s too cold to swim. And I love to read!

Traci: Any book recommendations?

Jessica: Water 4.0 by David Sedlak. It takes you through the evolution of water infrastructure from ancient Rome to today.

Christa: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Jessica: Probably working in environmental science, studying coral or coastal species.

Christa: Jessica, this has been an inspiring conversation. Thank you!

Jessica: Thank you so much—I really enjoyed it.

Title: Designing Safe, All-Electric, Emission-Free Vehicles: Caitlin Stanton ‘20, ‘21

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Welcome. Today we have with us Caitlin Stanton, a computer science graduate. Welcome, Caitlin.

Caitlin Stanton: Hello. It’s great to be here.

Christa: Excellent. It’s great to have you. And I saw on social media that this is a special week for you—you just got promoted.

Caitlin: I did! It actually happened yesterday. So, moving up in the world.

Christa: Excellent. Congratulations—well-deserved, I’m sure. Can you start by telling us a bit about your current work?

Caitlin: Yeah. I work at Cruise. I used to be an associate software engineer, and now I’m a software engineer, which is really exciting. I work in our Embedded Systems Department on the kernel frameworks and accelerators team.

Each person on my team owns a component within the car. Since Cruise is a self-driving car company, you’ll see our orange and white cars in places like San Francisco, Phoenix, Scottsdale, and Austin—driving with no driver behind the wheel. We provide ride-hailing services, similar to Lyft and Uber, as well as grocery delivery.

I specifically own the soundboard, which controls the various sounds our electric car emits. Since the engine is silent, we need to produce artificial sounds so that people can hear us. My work also involves enabling customers to call support from the car, ensuring the vehicle can hear emergency sirens to pull over, and integrating with other vehicle functions. I’ve been at Cruise for a little over a year and a half, and I recently took full ownership of the soundboard system. My days are spent coding, testing hardware, and ensuring my system fits within the broader vehicle framework—lots of moving parts!

Christa: That’s really innovative work. I know many students are interested in this field. Can you tell us more about your path and what helped you get here?

Caitlin: For sure. When I first got into coding, I loved the idea that a single line of code could change something, like a website or an app. But what really excited me was working with tangible systems. When I joined Girls Who Code in high school, one of our projects involved moving a robot around, and I found it fascinating that you could write a line of code and the robot would physically respond.

At Cornell, I studied Electrical and Computer Engineering, where I learned both coding principles and the hardware that supports them. I developed an appreciation for different levels of the technology stack—from high-level apps to the physics of circuits.

My junior and senior years were the most impactful because I took project-based courses. These courses allowed me to work hands-on with Arduinos, Raspberry Pis, and FPGA boards—plugging in circuits, making things light up, and even creating my own projects. These experiences sparked my interest in embedded systems, which is exactly what I do now.

For my master’s, I refined those skills further. When I started job hunting, self-driving cars stood out as a really interesting and unsolved challenge. Cruise and I found each other, and the rest is history!

Christa: What’s been the most significant challenge you’ve faced in your work, and how did you overcome it?

Caitlin: The biggest challenge I’ve faced is imposter syndrome. I’m the first and only junior hire on my team, working alongside senior engineers with decades of experience. Consciously, I know I can’t compare myself to them, but there’s always that little voice asking, Should I be doing more?

Another challenge is representation. I’m one of two women on a 15-person team. While my team is supportive, there aren’t many role models who share my background or experiences, which makes it harder to visualize my career path.

To overcome this, I actively seek mentorship—inside and outside of work. I’ve connected with senior engineers at Cruise and with mentors from previous jobs, professors at Cornell, and even my friends. I’ve learned that mentors don’t have to be older or in the same industry; they can be anyone who provides guidance.

Christa: I love that concept—knowing you can learn from anybody. And I know you’ve made a habit of giving back. Can you tell us more about your mentorship work?

Caitlin: Absolutely. I got my start in tech through Girls Who Code and later Build by Girls, both programs that support women and underrepresented minorities in technology. Having a strong community early on made a huge difference in my journey.

I wanted to provide that same support to others. In high school and college, I mentored students from underprivileged backgrounds and those transferring from community colleges to four-year universities. I also spoke at hackathons, judged competitions, and even gave a TEDx talk at Cornell.

I know I don’t have all the answers, but I want to be a resource for others. If someone can look at my journey and think, Caitlin did this, so it’s possible for me, then I’ve done something meaningful.

Christa: That’s amazing. What’s one of the most important messages you’ve been sharing lately?

Caitlin: Imposter syndrome is normal. It’s not fun, but nearly everyone experiences it. Even people who seem confident on the surface can be doubting themselves internally.

I try to reframe imposter syndrome as an opportunity for growth. If you feel out of place, instead of seeing it as a weakness, use it as motivation to learn. Find a mentor, take a class, or dive deeper into your field. And most importantly, remember that failure is not the end—it’s part of the process.

Christa: That’s such an important message. I also remember you writing a blog post about not getting a return offer from an internship. It went viral! Can you share a bit about that experience?

Caitlin: Yes! I had an internship where I expected to get a return offer, but I didn’t. I was devastated at first, but I decided to write a blog post about it, just as a personal reflection.

I posted it on LinkedIn, and suddenly it blew up. People reached out saying they’d had similar experiences but never talked about it. That’s when I realized rejection is common, but we rarely discuss it openly.

Ultimately, that setback led me to better opportunities. I did another internship, gained new experiences, and even ended up interviewing with that same company later on—this time, they gave me an offer! It taught me that closed doors often lead to better ones.

Christa: What an inspiring perspective. And now, here you are at Cruise, working on technology that contributes to a more sustainable world. Can you tell us more about how your work impacts the environment and safety?

Caitlin: Cruise’s self-driving cars are designed to improve road safety and reduce emissions.

From a safety standpoint, human drivers get distracted, tired, or make mistakes. Our cars use AI, cameras, radar, and lidar to make decisions faster and more accurately than a human driver could.

Environmentally, all of our vehicles are electric. We aim to replace gas-powered cars with an emission-free ride-hailing fleet, reducing our carbon footprint while increasing carpooling efficiency.

Christa: That’s incredible. For students interested in this field, what advice would you give?

Caitlin: You don’t have to work at a self-driving car company to get started. Focus on building relevant skills—whether in UI/UX, embedded systems, hardware, or AI. Work on projects, take hands-on courses, and seek internships in related fields.

Christa: What do you do to relax and recharge?

Caitlin: I love running, spending time outdoors, and making sure I balance work with hobbies. I also set boundaries with my time—if something isn’t bringing me joy or growth, I reevaluate it.

Christa: If you weren’t in tech, what would you be doing?

Caitlin: Probably working in advocacy—helping underrepresented communities access education and career opportunities.

Christa: Thank you so much, Caitlin. It’s been wonderful talking to you.

Caitlin: Thank you!

Christa: Join us next time as we celebrate engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Making the Connection between Chemical Engineering and Patient Care: Esther Park ‘06

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum, where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today, Esther Park will be joining us. Esther is a chemical engineering graduate and here to speak with us about her career as a pharmacist. Welcome, Esther.

Esther Park: So glad to be here.

Christa: So glad to have you. First, can you tell us a bit about your path to becoming a pharmacist?

Esther: Yes. It was fairly convoluted, but now I look back, it ended up being a straight path. I graduated with a chemical engineering degree and did what I thought was an amazing co-op program at Procter & Gamble. After seven months of work experience, I knew I wanted to do consumer products.

The Cornell Career Center really set me up for success with career fairs and recruiter meetings. I had a couple of job offers in consumer products before graduation and chose The Clorox Company in the Bay Area. I worked on Pine-Sol, bleach, and Clorox disinfecting wipes. But after two years, during the 2008 economic downturn, the company shifted focus from innovation to cost-saving, which was less exciting.

I started considering a career shift but continued working at Clorox while figuring things out. I took some classes and shadowed different roles, including biotech and clinical trials. One of my mentors suggested that having a pharmacy degree would open more doors in clinical trials. Ironically, my mom had wanted me to be a pharmacist in high school, and I refused, thinking it was the most boring job ever. Turns out, she was right.

A neonatologist friend at Stanford Children’s set me up with a shadowing opportunity with a pharmacist colleague. I spent four hours following her and was amazed—pharmacists in pediatric institutions care for the most vulnerable patients and see miracles every day. That experience changed everything.

I reduced my work hours to 75% and took four additional classes—communications, anatomy, psychology, and physiology—before applying to pharmacy school. I got into UCSF, the top-ranked program at the time. Cornell had more than prepared me. The P-Chem course there was so much easier than Professor Duncan’s! After four years, I earned my doctorate, started working in pediatric pharmacy, and eventually moved into regulatory compliance and safety.

Christa: Excellent. Thank you.

Traci: I’m really interested in your job title. What does a regulatory compliance and safety pharmacist do?

Esther: There’s a lot happening behind the scenes in a hospital that patients and families should never have to see. My role focuses on preventing and analyzing errors. If an error occurs, we conduct a root cause analysis—asking why at least seven times to understand how and why it happened.

I also communicate with patients and families when an error reaches a patient, explaining what happened and how we’re preventing it from recurring. I’m a front-facing leader for major projects, such as changing infusion pumps, addressing medication shortages, or updating medical supplies.

Pharmacy is one of the most heavily regulated areas in a hospital, and rightly so. My team ensures our five licensed pharmacies comply with state and federal regulations while exceeding internal safety standards. I have seven pharmacists reporting to me, each responsible for areas like shortages, quality, and formulary management. It’s not what I originally imagined doing, but I love it.

Traci: Esther, I am so impressed by your energy, your devotion to process improvement, and how much you’re managing. You’re leading teams and working across so many departments. Can you talk about the communication skills you’ve developed?

Esther: I love this topic because I always say, It doesn’t matter how much you know or do—if you can’t communicate it effectively, it doesn’t matter.

For example, pharmacists participate in rounds with medical teams. If I present a medication change unclearly or forcefully, the doctor may dismiss it. But if I phrase it concisely and persuasively, I can influence care decisions that reduce harm.

Hand-offs are another critical communication point. If I don’t clearly convey the situation in shift transitions, crucial details can be lost, affecting patient safety.

My team uses SBAR (Situation, Background, Assessment, Recommendation) formatting for all communication. Our goal is to make it concise—one clear subject line, key bullet points, a short assessment, and an actionable recommendation.

At Cornell, I took Professor Clancy’s memo writing class. She told us we wouldn’t appreciate it until we were in the workplace—and she was absolutely right. Now, even senior leaders send me reports to edit because clear communication is that essential.

Traci: Thank you for sharing that. It’s great for students to hear how communication skills translate into the workplace.

Christa: Thinking about these communication and optimization skills, I hear from students who want to contribute to healthcare or sustainability but aren’t sure how. What would you say to them?

Esther: Engineers absolutely have a place in healthcare. Let’s take IV fluids—something most people don’t think about.

IV fluids contain a precise balance of electrolytes, and if a solution is hypotonic (lacking enough electrolytes), it can cause serious harm. Engineers ensure these solutions are sterile, stable, and packaged correctly.

Recently, our hospital switched to environmentally friendly IV bags. However, these new bags burst when transported through our pneumatic tube system. Engineers had to assess everything—tube pressure, packaging design, even how pharmacy staff placed the bags in the tube system.

This is the kind of problem-solving engineers bring to healthcare every day.

Christa: That’s a great example.

Traci: Where do you go for collaboration or inspiration in solving these big challenges?

Esther: I collaborate with providers, nurses, respiratory therapists, and sourcing partners. Outside my hospital, I work with compliance leaders in Seattle, statewide pediatric groups, and even federal quality and safety organizations.

A great example is RSV. Every summer, we track RSV trends worldwide to anticipate outbreaks. I partner with Medicaid, Medicare, and other hospitals to ensure we have preventive treatments ready.

This year, RSV finally made headlines, raising awareness and accelerating vaccine development. The work behind the scenes—from tracking trends to securing treatments—is crucial, and engineers play a role in making it happen.

Christa: That’s fascinating. What’s been the most significant challenge you’ve faced?

Esther: Two challenges stand out.

First, when we switched electronic health records, everything had to be rebuilt manually, disrupting workflows. Doctors and nurses were frustrated. I had to escalate issues, ensure clear communication, and push for fundamental fixes, not just quick patches.

Second, drug shortages. A few years ago, we had 50 shortages annually. Now, it’s hundreds. Some meds simply disappear when manufacturers shut down.

We take three approaches:

1. Pharmacy absorbs the impact—we adjust behind the scenes so doctors and patients don’t notice.
2. We change protocols—doctors must prescribe alternatives, and nurses adjust administration.
3. No alternatives exist—we have to make tough calls about patient care.

This is an urgent crisis. Engineers in biotech and pharmaceutical manufacturing are desperately needed to address these issues.

Traci: That’s staggering. Let’s look back—what advice would you give your younger self?

Esther: Take intro courses, shadow professionals, and talk to the Career Center. And remember: 80% of decisions are good decisions. If they’re not, you learn from them.

Christa: How do you stay current in your field?

Esther: I follow professional organizations, FDA/DEA updates, and research journals. Critical thinking is essential—always vet your sources.

Traci: Finally, how do you relax?

Esther: Being outdoors, hiking in Olympic National Park, practicing mindfulness, and enjoying a good meal.

Christa: If you weren’t a pharmacist, what would you be doing?

Esther: Zoology! I once lived on a boat in the Galapagos, swimming with sharks and penguins. That would be my dream job.

Christa: That sounds incredible. Thank you for sharing your story, Esther.

Esther: Thank you!

Title: Providing Clean Water Infrastructure: Matthew Snyder ‘19, ‘20

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today, we’re joined by Matthew Snyder. I met Matthew when he was an undergraduate here studying civil and environmental engineering. He was nominated by a supervisor for Co-op Student of the Year for his exceptional work and received that award in 2018. He then stayed on for his master’s in civil and environmental engineering. Now, he’s an assistant project manager and engineer working with water purification and resource recovery. Welcome, Matthew.

Matthew Snyder: Good to be here.

Christa: How are you today?

Matthew: I’m good. It’s a little gloomy down here in Texas, but we always need the rain.

Christa: Yeah, good. Glad you have that. Speaking of rain, you work in water purification. Can you tell us more about your work and what that entails?

Matthew: It’s a fancy way of saying drinking water. I do mostly “inside the fence,” as we call it—once we get the water to treat and then send it out past that. I do a little bit beyond that, but primarily focus on the treatment process itself.

While I was at Cornell, I worked with AguaClara on gravity-based filtration and also did research with the Ithaca Water Treatment Plant, which has membrane filtration. Membranes have fascinated me ever since—I tell people I fell in love with them in school. My company specializes in membrane filtration, whether that’s direct filtration, where water goes straight through the membranes into distribution, or indirect, where we pre-treat it before filtration.

Christa: What does your day-to-day look like? Are you walking around the plant, working remotely, or behind a computer?

Matthew: My company is medium-sized, with around 1,100–1,200 employees. We pride ourselves on client service, which means we’re not fully remote. While we allow hybrid schedules, I prefer going to the office.

I spend about three days in the office working on design and number-crunching, but at least two days in the field. I visit treatment plants we’re working on, including one currently under construction from a design I spearheaded when I first started. It’s rewarding to see it go from a study phase to an actual facility.

Additionally, we’re serving as third-party construction managers on a quarter-billion-dollar project, so I spend a day there ensuring everything aligns with the plans. Some of my colleagues do more desk-based work, but I actively seek field opportunities because I enjoy the hands-on aspect.

Christa: For others interested in those opportunities, what advice do you have? What skills should they develop?

Matthew: My first big opportunity came from a co-op at a plant in its commissioning phase. That hands-on experience was invaluable.

A willingness to take on less glamorous jobs also helps. I primarily work in clean water, but I also do wastewater treatment. Our big construction project is a wastewater plant, and not everyone wants to spend time at a wastewater facility. But I volunteered, gained experience, and now I have more opportunities.

Christa: So, curiosity and a willingness to take on the tasks others may not want.

Matthew: Exactly. When I started visiting the wastewater plant, the project manager told me he struggled to get people out there. Meanwhile, I thought, Great! I get a day out of the office every week. It’s never a dull moment.

Christa: What has been one of your greatest challenges?

Matthew: The transition from school to work was difficult. At Cornell, I took a class where we partnered with alumni working in engineering firms. They gave us real projects, which was a great introduction, but still barely scratched the surface.

When I started working in 2020, everything was remote, making it even harder to figure out processes. Unlike school, where everything is structured, real-world work varies significantly from person to person. I had to learn to ask questions constantly.

Christa: That willingness to ask questions seems to have served you well.

Matthew: Definitely. I learned during my co-op that it’s better to ask a million questions than to guess wrong.

Christa: What impact does your work have?

Matthew: Many people take water for granted. My current project is a $22 million plant that provides clean water to a small town—just 12 million gallons a day, which isn’t much in the grand scheme. These projects are expensive and essential, yet often overlooked.

As young professionals, we want to raise awareness. We recently hosted interns from across our company for a tour, showcasing different engineering roles in water treatment, structural work, electrical systems, and water resources.

Now, with the EPA introducing stricter PFAS regulations, public trust and education are more critical than ever. We’re brainstorming ways to engage communities—like bringing high school students to tour water plants so they understand where their water comes from.

Christa: That’s a great initiative. Shifting gears, you worked on an MEng project during COVID. Can you tell us about that?

Matthew: Our team studied the Ithaca Water Treatment Plant, which sources water 13 miles away. They struggled with manganese fouling their membranes. The problem was that they couldn’t detect the issue until it was too late.

If they dosed chemicals too early, it would turn the water slightly purple—not harmful, but concerning to customers. If they reacted too late, the membranes clogged. We created a predictive tool based on rainfall, temperature, and stream flow to optimize dosing.

Unfortunately, COVID limited our ability to refine it further, but we provided a useful starting point.

Christa: Your work combined technical expertise with public communication.

Matthew: Yes, and that’s why I chose the project. After years of technical work, I wanted experience with stakeholder interaction. Now, I rely on plant operators’ input regularly.

Christa: What’s next for your learning and professional development?

Matthew: In August or September, I’ll qualify to become a Professional Engineer (PE), which is a major milestone in civil engineering. Unlike some disciplines, civil engineers stamp infrastructure designs—everything from roads to drinking water systems—so it’s a big responsibility.

Beyond that, I want to deepen my expertise in membrane technology. I’ve attended conferences and hinted to my boss that I want to specialize further. Whether that means more school or hands-on experience, I’ll see where it takes me.

Christa: That’s exciting. Are you ready for the speed round?

Matthew: Sure.

Christa: What do you do for fun and to relax?

Matthew: I’m a big golfer. One of the perks of living in Texas is year-round golf. My uncle owns a course in upstate New York, so I love visiting in the summer.

Christa: What’s one place you go to stay current in your work?

Matthew: I’m a member of AWWA (American Water Works Association). They have an excellent online resource for research, journal articles, and design standards.

Christa: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Matthew: I’ve always been drawn to water. My mom was a civil and environmental engineer at Cornell before becoming a lawyer specializing in water rights. I initially resisted following her path but ended up here anyway!

I originally considered applying my knowledge outside of consulting—maybe in water policy or infrastructure planning. Long term, I want to contribute to water sustainability and accessibility.

Christa: Water is such a critical issue globally. How do you balance infrastructure costs with the need for clean water access?

Matthew: In Texas, we have the Texas Water Development Board, which funds infrastructure projects for underserved communities. My company has a team specializing in helping municipalities secure funding.

Christa: This has been a great conversation. Thank you for joining us, Matthew.

Matthew: Thank you for having me.

Christa: Join us for the next episode, where we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Advancing Wearable Sensor Technology: Ilayda Samilgil ‘19

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Joining us today is Ilayda Samilgil, CEO and co-founder of LLume Organic Robotics. Welcome, Ilayda.

Ilayda Samilgil: Hi, thanks for having me.

Christa: Excited to have you here today. Can you please start by telling us about your current work?

Ilayda: At LLume, we used to be called Organic Robotics, which is why we still refer to both names. At LLume, we make stretchable fiber optic sensors, called Light Lace, and integrate them into different form factors and textiles to measure human performance metrics. These range from vitals like respiration to biomechanics, including motion capture and muscle fatigue.

Traci: We’d love to hear more about how your product is distinct from anything else on the market.

Ilayda: Our stretchable fiber optics are soft and stretchable, as the name suggests, but they can sense without requiring skin contact. For example, our chest straps don’t need to be placed directly on the skin—you can wear them over clothing. It’s currently the only technology that measures the waveform of respiration rather than just providing a rate. We can detect whether you’re breathing shallowly or deeply, the duration of each breath cycle, and the length of inhalations and exhalations.

Additionally, because our sensors are fiber-optic based, they don’t have many of the limitations of electronic sensors. We can sample at extremely high speeds, which is important for capturing high-speed movements—like a pitcher’s shoulder motion. Other products often downsample data, but ours collects every detail.

Another advantage is that we can use a single battery-powered pod to operate multiple sensors. Instead of placing pods all over the body—on the elbow, shoulder, or chest—you can put one centrally, like on the back of a shirt, and still capture data from multiple areas. This makes our sensors less bulky and more comfortable.

Traci: Perfect. That was awesome.

Christa: You started your company as an undergraduate, and now, a few years out of school, you’re leading it. How did that happen?

Ilayda: The technology originated from my senior year lab work. To be honest, I didn’t plan to start a company. After graduation, I spent time job hunting, unsure about what kind of company or role I wanted. The only thing I was certain about was that I wanted to create something innovative, impactful, and tangible.

I didn’t want to work on large-scale products like cars or airplanes—I wanted to develop something I could hold in my hands. But apart from that, I was open to different opportunities.

While I was job searching, my co-founder was figuring out applications for the sensors and invited me to join. Initially, I doubted whether I had what it took to run a company. It felt risky, especially coming straight out of undergrad. But I realized that if I didn’t take this risk now, it would be even harder 20 years later with more responsibilities. It checked my two key boxes—innovation and tangibility—so I took the leap. Now, more than three and a half years later, here we are.

Traci: What does a typical day look like for you?

Ilayda: We have a growing team of about ten people, half remote and half in-person. Each day varies. Some days, like today, I’m in meetings all day—talking with investors, customers, or team members. Other days, I travel to demonstrate our technology.

We usually start at 9 AM with a full team meeting to align on priorities. Throughout the day, there are Zoom calls since half our team is remote. Testing is a daily activity—sometimes basic functionality checks, sometimes validation studies comparing our devices to other products.

There’s always problem-solving involved. We often face challenges with multiple possible solutions, so we strategize which approach will be most effective. The dynamic nature of each day is something our team thrives on.

Traci: Thinking about your team and daily challenges, what’s the long-term vision for LLume?

Ilayda: Right now, we’re developing two products—a chest strap and a shirt—focused on professional athletes. Our long-term goal is to make our technology accessible to fitness and wellness consumers as well.

We envision a lineup of different form factors beyond shirts and chest straps—leggings, socks, swimsuits. Users could choose wearables based on their specific needs, like leg tracking for weightlifting or a swimwear-integrated sensor for aquatic training. Ultimately, we want to provide personalized, comfortable, and highly functional wearables powered by our unique technology.

Traci: That’s an exciting vision. What has been the biggest challenge you’ve faced?

Ilayda: My answer to this changes every few months as new challenges arise. In the beginning, it was finding the right team. Convincing people to join a startup without significant investment was difficult.

Another challenge was self-doubt—wondering if I had what it took to lead. There were a lot of rejections from grants, pitch competitions, and investors. The first “yes” was pivotal. Once we got one, others followed more quickly.

Then there were practical hurdles—I studied engineering, not finance, HR, or accounting. Learning how to manage these aspects of a startup, especially as an international founder unfamiliar with U.S. benefits systems, was tough. But over time, I figured it out.

Christa: What resources helped you develop these skills?

Ilayda: Advisors and mentors played a huge role. We joined the Praxis Incubator at Cornell, where mentors guided us through business development.

We also reached out to Cornell alumni through LinkedIn. Searching for startup finance experts or other needed skills, we messaged alumni, and almost everyone responded. The Cornell network has been incredibly supportive.

Christa: As you grew into an entrepreneurial role, what was your first step in engaging with the ecosystem at Cornell?

Ilayda: My co-founder had some experience with it, which helped us navigate the process. We applied to Praxis, and they provided feedback on how to refine our approach.

Even though I didn’t plan to be an entrepreneur, I minored in entrepreneurship at Cornell. That gave me a foundation in the startup ecosystem, which was valuable when we officially launched.

Traci: How does your work contribute to a healthier, more sustainable, or more equitable world?

Ilayda: Our chest strap, which will be our first commercial product, helps users optimize breathing. Breath control can reduce stress, lower blood pressure, and improve wellness.

In the long term, we see applications in clinical and medical settings. While our initial focus is sports and wellness, the potential for broader health impact is significant.

Traci: What organizations or collaborators helped shape your vision?

Ilayda: We participated in NSF’s I-Corps Program, which helped with customer discovery and business strategy. We also work with Cornell’s Strength and Conditioning Department, providing devices for testing and feedback.

Initially, we explored partnerships with larger companies but decided to establish ourselves first before revisiting those opportunities. However, the interest from major industry players was confidence-boosting.

Christa: If you could go back, what do you wish you knew as a sophomore?

Ilayda: I wish I knew there were so many startup opportunities in Ithaca. I would have sought internships with early-stage companies to see how they operate.

As an international student, I also wish I had known that starting a company here was legally possible with the right steps. Seeing other young founders succeed would have helped me realize entrepreneurship was an option.

Christa: What do you do to relax?

Ilayda: I spend time with my dog, ice skate, and read. Skating is especially calming—it forces me to focus and be in the moment.

Traci: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Ilayda: Something innovative and hands-on, probably in consumer electronics or hardware. But hopefully, I won’t have to find out!

Christa: We hope for continued success with LLume. Thank you for joining us today.

Ilayda: Thank you for having me. This was fun.

Christa: Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: A Serial Tech Entrepreneur who Empowers Others to Grow: Debbie Madden ‘96

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you. We are happy to have Debbie Madden today.

Debbie Madden: Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Christa: Debbie, it’s clear you’ve accomplished a lot in your career. Can you please take a few minutes and tell us more about your path and what draws you to new opportunities?

Debbie: Sure. As you mentioned, I am a serial tech entrepreneur. I call myself the Accidental Entrepreneur because I never set out to be one. When I was at Cornell, even in my first job, I worked for one of the biggest companies in the world. I never thought I’d be where I am today.

I fell into entrepreneurship accidentally. I got a taste of it while working at Kraft Foods, now Mondelez, using my ORIE degree. It was exactly what I thought I was going to do with my career, but three months in, I realized it wasn’t for me. From then on, every other job I had involved either creating a business or working for a small startup.

Entrepreneurship is scary, messy, and exciting all at once. I think if I hadn’t experienced working for a large company first, I wouldn’t have had the confidence to take the leap. I found that I thrive in environments where I’m solving problems I don’t initially believe I can solve. That kind of challenge gives me energy and drive.

Christa: I love that. How do you translate that for students as they think about next steps and the possibility of becoming an entrepreneur?

Debbie: Over the last decade, entrepreneurship has been glamorized. But the reality is, 99.6% of startups fail, and it’s not necessarily the right path for everyone.

I encourage students to view every opportunity—whether perfect or not—as a learning experience. Some think, I’m going to be an entrepreneur, so I don’t need to learn how to code or I don’t need to understand back-office operations. That’s a mistake. Take every team, every boss—good or bad—and absorb the lessons.

One of my most valuable lessons came from a Cornell class where we had to form teams of four and start a business. My first team was high-performing. We gelled, divided tasks effectively, and supported each other. At the time, I didn’t realize what made us successful. But the next semester, I had a different team, and we struggled. That contrast taught me what makes a great team, and I still use that knowledge today.

Traci: I love your insights about teams. Can you highlight what makes a great team member?

Debbie: There’s a lot written about this, and it’s crucial because the best teams—not necessarily the best ideas—win.

Google spent millions researching what makes teams successful. The number one factor? Psychological safety. Do team members feel they can speak their minds, disagree, and still be respected? Do they commit to decisions even when they initially disagreed?

Diversity also plays a role, but simply having a diverse team doesn’t automatically make it effective. What truly matters is whether people feel safe to be themselves and voice their opinions. If you’ve ever been on a team—whether in sports, school, or even family—you’ve seen the difference between teams that solve problems effectively and those that struggle with the same issues repeatedly.

Traci: I love that. It’s not just about being nice; it’s about driving better outcomes.

Debbie: Exactly. High-functioning teams aren’t just a “nice-to-have” thing. They directly impact success—whether measured by happiness, money, or achievement.

Christa: Thinking about your work, what’s the broader vision you’re working toward? What impact do you hope to make?

Debbie: Personally, I believe in acting with integrity, even when no one is watching. I always ask myself, Would I be okay if this conversation was on the front page of The New York Times? If the answer is no, I change my approach.

In business, my company, Stride Consulting, builds software for major brands like Disney, Peloton, and IBM. But why we do it matters more than what we do. We aim to empower companies to have a positive impact on the world.

Technology is central to everything—AI, software, and machine learning can be used for good or bad. We want to build better systems that enable companies to achieve greater reach and efficiency in areas like healthcare, clean energy, and education.

Christa: Who have been some of the most important partners and collaborators in your career?

Debbie: I take inspiration from everyone I meet. I see the world as my tutor.

There’s a movie about a girl in a spelling bee who felt disadvantaged, and her mentor told her, The whole world is your tutor. That stuck with me. Every conversation I have, I ask, Can I learn something from this person?

If you don’t have a mentor, get one. It doesn’t have to be someone older or more experienced. Often, the best way to find a mentor is to become one. Help someone study, give career advice—mentorship is a two-way street.

Christa: What’s been the most significant challenge you’ve faced?

Debbie: When I was diagnosed with breast cancer, Stride was only a year old. I had young kids and was facing a year-long treatment. The hardest part wasn’t the treatment—it was learning to delegate everything at once.

I had to trust my junior team to run the company and let my kids take on responsibilities at home. It was terrifying, but they rose to the occasion. I realized I had been holding people back by trying to control too much. Delegating fully made me a better leader and allowed others to grow.

Christa: That’s inspiring. What a powerful lesson in leadership.

Debbie: One morning, when I finally regained the strength to make breakfast for my kids, I walked into the kitchen and saw that they had already done it themselves. I could have jumped back in, but instead, I sat down and had coffee with them. That moment taught me that sometimes, leadership means stepping back.

Traci: That’s an extraordinary insight. Leadership isn’t just about taking charge; sometimes it’s about empowering others.

Christa: If you could go back, what advice would you give to your sophomore self?

Debbie: As a sophomore, I felt like I didn’t belong. There weren’t many women in engineering, and many of my classmates seemed smarter than me.

Looking back, I realize that what makes me successful isn’t my intelligence—it’s my grit, humor, and empathy. My advice to students is: Find the courage to be confident, even in small ways. Surround yourself with people who challenge you. It’s okay to be unsure. There’s no one right path—just show up as a good human and keep learning.

Also, fun fact—sophomore year was a big year for me. I met my husband then, as did my sister and her husband. No pressure!

Christa: Let’s wrap up with a speed round. What do you do to relax and reenergize?

Debbie: I love lifting weights and playing strategy board games with my family. My favorite right now is El Dorado.

Traci: What’s one place you go to stay current?

Debbie: Podcasts! I listen to Freakonomics, The Daily, Hidden Brain, and others while I exercise or drink my morning coffee.

Christa: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Debbie: I always thought I’d work with children. I’d probably be mentoring kids—helping them build confidence and find their place in the world.

Traci: I have no doubt you’ll find the right way to do that. Thank you for this conversation—it’s been truly inspiring.

Debbie: Thank you! Cornell gave me so much, and I cherish those memories—even the problem sets!

Christa: Thank you for listening. Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: A Mechanical Engineer Unbound by Conventional Career Paths: Dr. Malika Grayson ‘14, ‘16

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today, we are joined by Dr. Malika Grayson, founder of Steminist Empowered LLC and Program Manager at Northrop Grumman. Welcome.

Malika Grayson: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here, and it’s sunny where I am, so it makes me even happier.

Christa: Excellent. We’re thrilled to have you. We know you studied wind energy at Cornell. Can you tell us more about your background and how you got to this place in your career?

Malika: Yeah, I did study wind energy, which is funny because I have a small wind turbine on my desk right now just as a reminder of where I came from. My background started in Trinidad and Tobago—that’s where I grew up. I knew I wanted to do something in engineering, even though I didn’t know exactly what it was at the time. That took me to Adelphi University to study physics.

During my time at Adelphi, I did a summer undergraduate research experience at Georgia Tech. It was my first experience at an engineering-focused university, working in a lab with mechanical engineering research. That experience convinced me that I wanted to pursue a PhD. I applied to multiple programs and ultimately ended up at Cornell.

I remember visiting Ithaca in late April and telling myself I didn’t want to go there because of the weather—it was raining, and I think it was still snowing! But then, two days before I had to make a decision, I saw someone on TV wearing a shirt that said, Ithaca is Gorges. I took that as a sign and chose Cornell. Once I got there and had to decide what to study, I reflected on my Caribbean roots, the ocean breeze, and the power of wind energy. That’s how I ended up researching wind energy for my PhD.

Christa: I love it. I love that you took a pause from that Caribbean breeze to join us in gorgeous Ithaca, New York.

Malika: Yes. Of course, I don’t do any wind energy now, but that’s another story.

Christa: Well, let’s talk about that story now. What do you do now at Northrop Grumman? And what does that look like on a daily basis?

Malika: I’m a Program Manager at Northrop Grumman. My journey to program management actually started at Cornell through student organizations like Grad SWE and NSBE.

I attended a NSBE conference while at Cornell and visited the Northrop Grumman booth. The recruiter told me to come back the next year since I wasn’t graduating yet. I did, and that’s how I ended up meeting the director of engineering. I asked him, My background is in wind energy and fluid mechanics—what could I do at a defense contractor like Northrop Grumman? He suggested I apply for a rotational program, which turned out to be an incredible opportunity.

Through that program, I lived in California for a year, working on software development and thermodynamics. My second year was in Virginia, where I focused on portfolio management and leadership skills. In my third year, I split my time between strategy, technical engineering, and supporting engineers within the company.

After finishing the program, I transitioned into IT project management, solving large-scale problems. Eventually, I was offered a role as a Program Manager, leading strategic investments that impact the company. It has been an exciting journey of taking risks, learning, and growing.

Traci: I think that your path is so interesting—the ebb and flow of exploring and then coming back to your roots. That really allowed you to open doors for yourself while always knowing you had a solid foundation.

Malika: Absolutely. The more I take risks, the less scary they become. The first time you step outside your comfort zone, it’s intimidating. But if you keep doing it, you realize it’s okay to explore and see what else is out there. If something doesn’t work, you can always recalibrate.

Traci: Given all these experiences, what has been your most significant challenge, and how did you overcome it?

Malika: One of my toughest challenges was losing my advisor, Professor Garcia, during my PhD. At the time, I didn’t think I would finish graduate school. But I learned that when facing challenges, you have to find support, take a step back, and trust yourself.

Having a strong network is crucial. Whether it’s mentors, colleagues, or friends, building a community helps you push through difficult times. I grew up in a large Caribbean family, surrounded by support, and I’ve carried that mindset into every stage of my career.

Christa: Community and mentoring are clearly a big part of what you do. I know you serve on the board of Discover Engineering. Can you tell us more about that organization and your role?

Malika: Discover Engineering is an organization focused on providing every student with STEM experiences. They organize Engineers Week, Introduce a Girl to Engineering Day, and the Future City Competition, where students build sustainable cities.

I started as a volunteer at Northrop Grumman, helping promote Engineers Week. I aligned with their mission and kept getting involved. Eventually, someone in my network referred me to the board, and I’ve been serving there ever since.

Traci: You also founded Steminist Empowered. Can you tell us about that?

Malika: Steminist Empowered is a company I founded to encourage and mentor women of color pursuing advanced degrees. We started with a four-month mentorship program where we paired women with mentors, hosted guest speakers, and discussed topics like self-advocacy and imposter syndrome.

Now, we’re partnering with STEMNoire for a conference in Puerto Rico, where we’ll host a workshop on career preparation and networking. My goal is to continue expanding the impact of Steminist Empowered.

Traci: You have three books with your name on the cover. Can you relate that to the work you’re doing with Steminist Empowered?

Malika: Writing wasn’t something I planned after finishing my dissertation! But after being one of the few Black women in my PhD cohort and the second Black woman to graduate with a PhD in Mechanical Engineering at Cornell, I realized I had experiences worth sharing.

I started a blog, which led to my book Hooded. My latest book, Lessons Learned: Stories from Women Leaders in STEM, is about resilience and success in STEM careers. My goal with all my writing is to uplift and encourage others.

Christa: Your work aligns so well with the College of Engineering’s mission to create a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Malika: Absolutely. Equity in engineering isn’t just about saying we need more diversity—it’s about taking action. I participate in employee resource groups, mentorship programs, and diversity councils because change requires effort from all of us.

Traci: Who have been your most important collaborators?

Malika: Educators, universities, and companies. I work with universities on workshops for students and partner with companies that support diversity in STEM. My collaborations help me stay engaged and understand what today’s students need.

Christa: What’s one signature message you like to share with audiences, especially students?

Malika: Don’t put yourself in a box. Just because you’re an engineer doesn’t mean you can’t be an author, entrepreneur, or leader in other fields. Engineering gives you the tools to solve problems—how you apply those skills is up to you.

Traci: What’s next for you?

Malika: Growing Steminist Empowered, expanding my impact in retention and recruitment efforts, and continuing to develop my leadership skills.

Christa: What do you do to relax?

Malika: I love cooking—especially when someone else washes the dishes! I also enjoy traveling, taking walks, and watching TV.

Traci: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Malika: Maybe a chef, or a travel guide. But honestly, who knows? Life keeps evolving!

Christa: Thank you for this inspiring conversation, Malika.

Malika: Thank you for having me.

Christa: Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Innovating Sizing and Digital Fit Systems: Nathan Ghabour ‘13

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: We’re happy to share today’s conversation with Nathan Ghabour. Nathan, who currently works at Nike, is an experienced product leader in the computer software industry, skilled in computer-aided design, biomechanics, surface modeling, and product design. Nathan’s career launched with a Bachelor of Science focused on Biomechanical Engineering from Cornell University, class of 2013. Welcome, Nathan.

Nathan Ghabour: Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Christa: Nathan, let’s start by having you tell us a little bit about your current work.

Nathan: Yeah, right now I work at Nike within the Innovation Department called NXT. NXT is a group of innovators that Nike created that allows us to build the future of sport. It’s actually a really cool place to see such an investment in innovation. Unlike other apparel companies, Nike really wants to keep setting itself as a leader in the industry. I work in a department called NXT Digital. Because innovation existed before computers and Nike, I help lead a more digital wave focusing on machine learning and product creation. I use avatars and bodies to enable people to design and use a large set of data to allow us to understand all the different shapes and poses humans have.

Traci: I think that that is really fascinating. What does your day look like then? I’m imagining all kinds of things, but I want to know what is actually true.

Nathan: Yeah, I’m a director now, so I do a lot of different things. When I worked at a startup, I wore a lot of hats, and now as a director, I wear a lot of hats—different hats though. Part of my job is solving hard problems, really looking at what we can do with the datasets that we’ve collected over the last couple of years at Nike and finding ways we can create better products using that. That’s where I use my engineering skills to solve these bigger problems. Like what does a new sizing system look like? Or what are better ways to approach sizing across the industry?

Other parts of my job involve educating people. People don’t necessarily know what machine learning means in and outside of Nike. I help people understand the use cases and applications of the technology we create and build the tools to do that. I also manage a group of engineers who develop the tools and capabilities that create UIs and interfaces, enabling people to use all the data we’ve collected.

Traci: With that in mind, I have a follow-up question. I quite often talk to my undergraduates about using avatars or case histories, whether real or fictional, to help frame a problem. How do you develop those in-house and then deploy them to make a better product?

Nathan: Ironically enough, I worked for the company that helped create a standard for this. My third job out of Cornell was at a company called Body Labs. They focused on understanding human shape and pose.

At my first job, I was designing insoles for shoes and using CAD, but I longed for a foot model to design the perfect insole. Scanning technology is still pretty basic, capturing data and creating a point cloud—a collection of literal points in an XYZ plane. Body Labs took those point clouds and gave them meaningful human shapes. They developed a statistical model using thousands of scanned human bodies to separate shape and pose components, creating a unified mesh.

It’s like a human-shaped balloon being pumped up to fit all the point clouds. Once it fits, you have a unified mesh that you can import into any CAD system, analyze, and use across product creation.

Traci: I don’t think I’m going to get over the idea of pumping up a human form. That’s amazing. Thank you for the visual.

Nathan: We had to really think about different ways to explain the technology. Explaining a Gaussian equation to non-engineers is difficult. A big part of my job is creating analogies that make complex math and engineering concepts accessible. I work with designers and pattern makers who may not have taken multivariable calculus, so I have to frame things in ways they understand.

Traci: You’re doing a great job already today.

Christa: I’m thinking about how many students have an interest in product design. Can you tell us more about your path to where you are today?

Nathan: Out of Cornell, I was an independent major. I took a path off the normal course. I saw a future in design but knew that traditional engineering jobs often start with years of incremental work before getting to design. That wasn’t for me.

I started at HSS, building tooling to measure MCL circumferences for surface area calculations. It was fascinating, but I wasn’t designing, so I looked for something different. That’s when I found startup culture. I helped start a company called SOLS in 2013, which 3D-printed custom insoles. That allowed me to use my biomechanics and CAD expertise to create products while also learning about 3D printing.

Through each step in my career, I built a bridge between industrial design and mechanical engineering, ensuring products not only look good but also perform well.

Traci: You mentioned having to translate engineering concepts for non-engineers. How do you navigate that?

Nathan: My job as a translator has evolved from technical-to-technical to technical-to-business. I transitioned from engineer to product manager at SOLS, where I had to articulate design requirements to CAD engineers. At Body Labs, I had to understand statistical modeling and machine learning—fields I wasn’t trained in—so I read my old math books to grasp key concepts.

The trick is using simple terms. Saying “Gaussian” assumes people know what that is. Instead, I use analogies like the human-shaped balloon. You also learn to read visual cues—if someone looks overwhelmed, you need to dial back the complexity. Communication is a two-way process. If someone doesn’t understand, it’s not a failure; it’s an opportunity to refine the explanation.

Traci: I’m over here cheering because you’re describing so many of the things I teach in engineering communication—translation, distilling ideas, and vulnerability in learning.

Nathan: Absolutely. It’s not just a skill; it’s an asset. Being able to bridge communication gaps makes you more valuable in the workplace and opens career opportunities.

Christa: Thinking about impact, how does your work contribute to a healthier, more equitable, or more sustainable world?

Nathan: My work has always been about improving products for humans. Early in my career, I aimed to make orthotics more affordable and effective. Now, with avatars and digital fitting, I’m helping the industry move beyond outdated, one-size-fits-all ergonomic data—most of which is based on average white male Army recruits from decades ago.

We now have data to design inclusively, addressing differences in body types, genders, and physical abilities. My work ensures designers have the right data to create products that truly fit diverse populations.

Traci: One of my favorite topics is data collection and how it shapes design decisions.

Nathan: It’s critical. I spend a lot of time auditing datasets to prevent bias. There are no universal ethics guidelines for data, so it’s often up to individuals to self-regulate. That’s why diversity in engineering is so important—different perspectives ensure better decisions.

Christa: If you could go back, what advice would you give your sophomore self?

Nathan: Cornell is hard. But remember, you’re at one of the top universities in the world. No matter where you are in your class ranking, you’re still among the best. I wish I had reminded myself of that more often.

Traci: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Nathan: I always wanted to be a chef! But engineering was the right path for me.

Christa: Thank you, Nathan. This was an inspiring conversation.

Nathan: Thank you!

Christa: Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Focused on Carbon Dioxide Removal Technologies with an Interdisciplinary Lens: Dr. Xiangkun Elvis Cao ‘21

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today we have with us Xiangkun Elvis Cao. He is a Schmidt Science Fellow at MIT, working at the intersection of technology, business, and policy for carbon dioxide removal. Welcome, Elvis.

Elvis Cao: Hi, thanks, Christa. It’s a great honor to be here, especially after I left Cornell. It’s good to be back virtually.

Christa: Excellent. We’re glad to have you. Let’s start with you telling us a bit about your current work.

Elvis: Yeah, absolutely. I’m currently a Schmidt Science Fellow in the Department of Chemical Engineering at MIT, and my focus is on carbon dioxide removal technologies. With my engineering training background, I now focus on how we can best develop and deploy these technologies at the nexus of technology, business, and policy. This is an important topic since we have urgent net-zero goals to reach, and carbon dioxide removal is one of the main approaches to help us achieve that.

Christa: Excellent, and what does that look like exactly?

Elvis: I got my PhD training in Mechanical Engineering at Cornell, where I worked on a specific carbon dioxide removal technology—reactive conversion of CO₂ into sustainable aviation fuels under sunlight. This is just one of many approaches for CO₂ utilization. Carbon removal technologies encompass capture, utilization, and sequestration, making it a broad and interdisciplinary field.

Now, transitioning into my postdoc, I have been fortunate to receive funding from the Schmidt Science Fellowship to work on what I believe is a critical missing piece—developing policies and business incentives to help transition these technologies from the lab to real-world deployment. Technology alone is not enough; we need to ensure that it can be successfully integrated into industries and markets.

Christa: Excellent. And who are the important collaborators in this work?

Elvis: Collaborators include stakeholders from multiple sectors—government agencies, NGOs, and policymakers who shape regulations and incentives. At the same time, research institutions collaborate with businesses to create synergy between scientific innovation and market implementation. By bringing together policy experts, businesses, and researchers, we can more effectively tackle climate challenges.

Christa: Yes, absolutely. In what ways do you anticipate AI impacting your work or the industry in the future?

Elvis: AI is a powerful tool, but it can’t solve everything. In materials discovery, AI helps identify potential new materials, optimize processes, and improve system efficiencies. However, AI still needs human scientists to evaluate ethical, social, and policy implications. For example, AI alone cannot determine whether a climate policy is equitable or just—we need human experts for that. AI and human collaboration are essential to making real progress.

Christa: Yes, I appreciate that. Thank you. What’s the most significant challenge you face in your work?

Elvis: One major challenge is the strong disciplinary boundaries in academia. My PhD was in Mechanical Engineering, and now I’m in Chemical Engineering, where I already see clear distinctions between adjacent disciplines. However, as I pivot further into the intersection of engineering and social science, the boundaries become even more rigid.

I often struggle to define my own research identity because traditional academic structures do not always accommodate interdisciplinary work. While there is growing recognition of the need for interdisciplinary research, funding mechanisms and institutional support remain limited. The Schmidt Science Fellowship is helping address this, but we need broader systemic change to support early-career researchers working at disciplinary intersections.

Christa: I’m glad to hear that you’re part of a movement toward more collaboration and interdisciplinary work. Can you tell us a bit about your journey and how you got to where you are?

Elvis: It has been a long journey. I was born in a small village in China and raised by my grandmother, who was a hardworking farmer. She never finished primary school, but she believed deeply in the power of education. Her encouragement and support helped me reach where I am today.

I earned my PhD from Cornell in 2021 and was honored to be included on multiple “30 Under 30” lists for my work on climate solutions. Now, as a Schmidt Science Fellow at MIT, I continue pursuing my passion for carbon removal technologies. I owe much of my success to the support of my family, mentors, and colleagues.

Christa: How did you get from rural China to Cornell?

Elvis: It wasn’t a straightforward journey. I completed my undergraduate degree in China, pursued a master’s in Canada, and then decided to apply for PhD programs in renewable energy. Cornell was the only institution that offered me full funding, so I accepted. That decision ultimately shaped my career and brought me to where I am today.

Christa: What do you wish you knew when you were a sophomore?

Elvis: I wish I had read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People earlier. The concepts in that book—dependence, independence, and interdependence—are incredibly valuable. Even today, I use a decision matrix from the book to prioritize tasks based on urgency and importance. This framework helps me manage my workload efficiently.

Christa: Interesting. I know you’re extremely busy, yet you take time to mentor others and share knowledge. Can you tell us about your article on failure?

Elvis: Yes. I believe we need more open conversations about failure, especially for early-career researchers. My journey was not straightforward, and I benefited from great mentorship. Now, I want to give back.

Earlier this year, I co-authored an article on failures in graduate school, which resonated with many readers. It has been accessed over 6,000 times since January, and I’ve received numerous messages from students who felt reassured knowing they weren’t alone. Science is full of setbacks, and we need to normalize discussing failures as part of the learning process.

Christa: What would you say is your purpose?

Elvis: My scientific purpose is to develop and deploy carbon removal technologies that make a measurable impact on climate change. Beyond that, I want to empower underrepresented individuals in STEM.

During my PhD, I mentored first-generation and low-income students, which was a transformative experience for me. In 2022, I was honored to be inducted into the Bouchet Honor Society for my advocacy. Moving forward, I want to continue supporting others while learning from them as well.

Christa: Where do you go to stay current in your field?

Elvis: Carbon dioxide removal is a rapidly evolving field. I stay updated through a LinkedIn group dedicated to this topic, where professionals share the latest advancements. I also rely on the Research Excellence in Carbon Sequestration (RECS) program, which has built a strong network of over 600 experts in this field.

Christa: What resources would you recommend for undergraduates who want to get involved in this work?

Elvis: The LinkedIn group I mentioned is now public, so students can join. Additionally, reading recent scientific publications is a great way to explore emerging research and build knowledge in carbon removal technologies.

Christa: What do you do to relax and re-energize?

Elvis: Gardening. During the pandemic, I couldn’t visit my family for four years. To stay connected, I started growing lettuce and tomatoes in Ithaca, calling my grandmother for advice. She loved teaching me how to farm, and it became a great way for me to relax. Unlike research, where results can take years, gardening gives immediate gratification.

Christa: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Elvis: I always wanted to be a scientist, so I’m exactly where I want to be. But if I weren’t in STEM, I’d likely be involved in climate policy or social science—still working toward sustainability, just in a different role.

Christa: Thank you for this insightful conversation, Elvis.

Elvis: Thank you so much. The pleasure is mine.

Christa: Thank you for listening. Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Revolutionizing Recycling: Stwart Peña Feliz ‘17

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Stwart Peña Feliz just completed his MBA at MIT Sloan School of Management, where he is this year’s winner of the MIT Climate Energy Prize. Stwart is the founder and CEO of a startup that recycles plastic using a novel process that’s 90% more efficient compared to other processes with zero carbon emissions. He was also recently accepted into the Breakthrough Energy Fellows Program. Welcome, Stwart.

Stwart Peña Feliz: Thank you. I’m excited to be here and I appreciate the opportunity.

Christa: It’s good to have you. Let’s start with you telling us about your current work.

Stwart: Yeah, so I am in a very fortunate situation to have met my co-founder, who innovated a process that is able to take plastic of any quality and upcycle it for all market applications. Something that I think we all know is that we have a big issue with plastic waste at the moment. The predominant way of recycling is mechanical recycling, but mechanical recycling downgrades the quality of plastics. Essentially, you can take plastic from a water bottle and recycle it into textiles and fibers, but not vice versa.

As a result, plastic eventually ends up in landfills, and new fossil fuel-generated plastic has to be created to meet demand. What my co-founder has innovated is a process that can take plastic of any quality—whether bottles, textiles, or fibers—and upcycle it to virgin-grade quality that can be used for all market applications. What’s amazing is that compared to other technologies that achieve this, our process requires 90% less energy and can be electrified to reach net zero carbon emissions.

It’s honestly something I am very privileged to be working on. Every day I wake up re-energized for the new challenges. Since I’m working on something brand new, many of the challenges I face have never been encountered before. It’s difficult, but overcoming these obstacles brings us one step closer to our goals.

Christa: That is very exciting. We’d love to hear about your engineering background and how it’s contributed to your success so far.

Stwart: I graduated as a chemical engineer from the class of 2017. I truly loved my time at Cornell—doing research and trying to learn as much as possible. I interned at ExxonMobil as a process design engineer, which was an amazing experience, so I decided to work there full-time.

Cornell truly prepared me for everything I encountered at Exxon. I like to joke that I have never been as challenged in the real world as I was by Cornell’s prelims! But that preparation meant I was fully equipped to tackle the engineering challenges at Exxon. My foundation gave me a leg up compared to my peers, allowing me to move through roles quickly and excel.

After ExxonMobil, I pivoted into a renewable energy startup where I served as a senior process engineer while also diving into business development. That experience showed me how to integrate engineering with business to bring the best products to market. It also revealed a skill gap—I lacked business expertise. That realization led me to apply to MIT Sloan, where I just graduated.

I wanted to become a lethal asset—someone who could understand the technical details but also communicate a technology’s business viability and bring it to market. No matter how well I could communicate, it wouldn’t mean much if I couldn’t understand the technical aspects. My engineering background has been critical in allowing me to bridge those worlds.

Traci: I think that’s a wonderful connection you’ve made. Since I work in engineering communication, I love hearing how you link everything together! You’ve faced many challenges along your journey, but what has been the most significant one?

Stwart: I think the biggest challenge I’ve had to overcome, and one that many people will face, is impostor syndrome—or just having confidence when facing major challenges.

A quote I recently told a mentee is that impostor syndrome is the greatest thing that can happen to you. We all know that if you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room. So if you feel impostor syndrome, that means you’re in the right place.

One of my biggest personal challenges was being laid off from ExxonMobil in 2020. Due to COVID and the downturn in oil prices, the company reduced its workforce. I was placed in the performance improvement program (PiP), not because of my technical skills, but because my positivity and confidence were perceived as arrogance compared to technical veterans.

That feedback shocked me. What I saw as my greatest asset was framed as a weakness. I started doubting myself and losing confidence. But thanks to the support of my peers and family, I realized they were wrong—I wasn’t the problem. My ability to communicate and connect was a strength.

I doubled down on that skill, which became a driving force behind why I went to business school. Now, I’m leading a company, raising capital, and bringing technology to market—all because I leaned into what makes me unique instead of shying away from it.

Traci: I love that reframing of impostor syndrome—it’s not a sign of failure but of being in the right place to grow.

Christa: I agree. That’s such a great perspective. What’s your vision for your company and the impact you want to have?

Stwart: Our vision is to clean our environment and give plastic its rightful place in the circular economy. Ultimately, we aim to remove millions of pounds of plastic from our oceans, landfills, and environment while preventing an equivalent amount from being produced through fossil fuels.

Plastic has clear benefits—whether in healthcare, making vehicles lighter, or preventing food spoilage. The problem isn’t plastic itself, but how we produce and dispose of it. Our company ensures plastic can be reused indefinitely without relying on fossil fuel production.

Christa: Who are the key collaborators in achieving that vision?

Stwart: Two major groups: universities and financial institutions.

First, universities. There’s a gap in talent because traditional engineering curricula focus on legacy industries like oil and gas. We need more educational programs tailored to sustainability and clean technology.

Second, financial institutions. Hard-tech startups require large-scale investments, but they often struggle to attract funding compared to software companies, which generate quick returns. We need a shift in how venture capital and banks view long-term investments in infrastructure and sustainability.

Christa: That’s an excellent point. What advice would you give your sophomore self?

Stwart: Focus more on communication skills. Technical ability is important, but your ability to clearly communicate your ideas and work in a team is what sets you apart.

Now, as I recruit talent, I prioritize candidates with strong teamwork and communication skills over perfect GPAs. If I had understood that sooner, I wouldn’t have stressed as much over grades and instead focused on growing holistically.

Traci: I love that answer! And you weren’t paid to say that, right?

Stwart: Nope! But it’s true—communication has been critical in my career.

Christa: What do you do to relax and reenergize?

Stwart: I love skydiving! There’s nothing like jumping out of a plane and experiencing total freedom at 14,000 feet. It’s an incredible feeling.

On a daily basis, I go to the gym. Taking care of my body helps my mind stay sharp, so I can bring my best self to work.

Traci: That’s amazing. Stwart, thank you so much for this conversation.

Stwart: Thank you!

Christa: Thank you for listening. Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Exploring Mars: An Insider’s Perspective: Nathan Williams ‘11

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Nathan Williams earned his Bachelor’s Degree in Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at Cornell in 2011, then went on to get a Ph.D. studying the Moon and Mars at Arizona State University in 2016. He now works as a science systems engineer at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Our interview with Nathan takes us to Mars and back again, and there are some surprises along the way. We hope you join us.

Traci: We are happy today to introduce you to Nathan Williams, who is willing to talk to us about many extraordinary things. Christa had a nice intro conversation with him the other day, but we’re really excited to explore all the different ways that Nathan is having a great impact on the world and doing the great work that he does all day long. Welcome. We’re so glad that you’re with us today.

Nathan Williams: Thank you for having me. I’m really happy to be here.

Traci: Let’s give people a little bit of background. What are you working on right now? Tell us about your current work.

Nathan: So many things. In general, yes, I’m working at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory with NASA at CalTech in Pasadena, California. Most of my current work right now is looking at Mars—various landing sites, working with the Mars Rover Perseverance, the Ingenuity helicopter, Mars sample return, and several other missions. Basically, if it’s something related to the Mars surface—especially mapping products and relating science to engineering—I’m often involved in a lot of those conversations to help facilitate those, to make sure that we really get the most bang for our buck out of our missions. That we’re really getting the greatest science return that we can.

Traci: For someone who might be considering a path like this, can you talk more about what this looks like day to day?

Nathan: My day-to-day life is extremely varied. No two days are ever the same. In part, that’s because I’m on operations, and tactically, we get new data down from Mars every day. We’re often in a new place—seeing new rocks, dust devils popping up everywhere. No two days are the same because we’re always doing something brand new. I find that extremely exciting. The same with the helicopters—every single day we’re flying, downloading new images. You never know what you’re going to see, and that’s part of the thrill for me.

Traci: It just seems like the work you’re doing is the stuff of movies and books. People fantasize about it or have some misconceptions about how it works. What’s the most significant challenge in your work?

Nathan: The biggest thing is you just have to stay nimble and flexible. In my position, I’m talking to scientists and engineers—people with very different backgrounds and ways of thinking. They don’t always communicate efficiently with each other. I have a science background, but I also have an engineering background from Cornell, where I pursued quantitative geophysics in grad school. That allows me to bridge the gap, facilitate conversations, and ensure our teams are aligned.

One day an engineer might come to me and ask, “We have this capability—what should we do with it?” I can translate that into something useful for the scientists. Then, I take the scientists’ needs back to the engineers in a way they can understand. The details of what I do change every day, but the key is listening, translating, and ensuring that communication happens.

Traci: Now, Nathan, people might think I have my thumb on the scale here, but I don’t! I teach engineering communications, and I think you’re proving my point.

Nathan: No, it’s true! Communication is what makes the best teams efficient. When everyone can talk freely and share ideas, barriers break down, and we achieve so much more.

Christa: What advice do you have for people looking to improve communication skills in an engineering or scientific environment?

Nathan: Try to learn as much as you can about the people you work with. Even if you don’t work with them directly, understanding their context is valuable. Beyond that, just sitting down and chatting with colleagues—informally—helps build rapport and insight into how they think.

Writing is also critical. We do a lot of technical documentation, and it’s important that reports are both detailed and accessible. If a scientist needs to read an engineering report, it shouldn’t be so technical that they can’t understand it. Finding that balance between depth and clarity is an ongoing challenge but worth striving for.

Christa: One of our themes is how engineering contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world. How does your work fit into that, and who are the key collaborators?

Nathan: NASA is all about efficiency. Every piece of equipment we send into space has to be lightweight, energy-efficient, and reliable. Many of the technologies we develop end up being shared with the public. Our research translates into better materials, medical equipment, and even energy-saving systems here on Earth.

In terms of equity, diversity in our teams is critical. When you bring together people from different backgrounds, you get fresh ideas and innovative solutions. The same way we analyze Mars from different perspectives—looking at satellite images, surface data, and geological patterns—we need diverse perspectives in our teams. It makes us better problem solvers.

Traci: That’s such a powerful argument for why diverse teams are stronger teams.

Nathan: Absolutely.

Christa: If you could go back, what do you wish you knew as a sophomore?

Nathan: Get involved in undergraduate research! I started as a freshman, working on Earth sciences, then moved to studying the Moon. That early exposure built my network, which later helped me land opportunities at NASA. Also—network, network, network. It’s more valuable than I realized at the time.

Traci: What do you do to relax and reenergize?

Nathan: I love bird watching! It’s like a mini treasure hunt. You never know what you’ll find. At Cornell, I was involved in the Cornell Raptor Program, working hands-on with birds of prey. That experience was incredible. Now, I don’t have time for that level of commitment, but I still go hiking and look for birds whenever I can.

Christa: Tell us about Mars time.

Nathan: Mars days—sols—are about 40 minutes longer than Earth days. When we’re in the early stages of a mission, we shift our work schedules to match Mars time. That means our shifts move every day—sometimes starting in the morning, then the afternoon, then overnight. It’s like living in a constant state of jet lag.

To adjust, I blacked out my windows, used artificial daylight lamps, and scheduled meals strategically. It’s tough, but it’s worth it because—well, we’re on Mars!

Traci: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Nathan: Probably studying birds in a research setting, or working in geophysics, or even software engineering. But honestly, I can’t imagine a better job than this.

Christa: Final thoughts?

Nathan: The sky is no longer a limit. The key to success—no matter what field—is understanding context, communicating effectively, and working across barriers. That’s how we make the biggest impact.

Traci: Nathan, it’s been a joy talking to you today.

Nathan: My pleasure! Also, for those interested in NASA’s work, follow NASA and JPL on social media for the latest updates.

Christa: Thank you for listening. Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Navigating the Intersection of Healthcare, Data, and Sustainability: Allie Gaines ‘14

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: We had the chance to catch up with Allie Gaines, a Cornellian who completed her undergraduate degree in 2014 in Information Science, Systems, and Technology. With her many interests, she works on issues of food, food production, data analysis, epidemiology, the health of the planet, sustainability, and more. Since leaving Cornell, she’s gone on to do incredible work across several disciplines. And on the day we spoke, she was getting ready to defend her Ph.D. in a couple of weeks while working full-time in consulting. Listen in, as we can learn so much from Allie. Thank you for being here.

Christa: Hi, Allie. It’s good to have you here today.

Allie Gaines: Hi, Christa. I’m excited to be here.

Christa: I’m excited to share your story. Can you start by telling us a bit about your path? How did you get here? Maybe some of your degrees along the way, as well as your current work and your most recent work before that, because I know you’re in a new position.

Allie: I graduated from Cornell in 2014, majoring in Information Science, Systems, and Technology. Right after school, I started at Athena Health, an electronic medical record company in Boston. I had always had an interest in healthcare but hadn’t really explored it, so I was excited for the opportunity. On that team, I worked on data interoperability in a technical role.

After a few years, I realized that while I could understand the technical side, I really liked working on the healthcare clinical solution side. I was put on a project involving cancer registries—ensuring medical record data was sent to government cancer registries. That work showed me how data could be used to track disease prevalence and make a real difference.

I then spent a year in consulting, gaining broader experience before pursuing my Master’s in Global Health and Epidemiology at the University of Oxford. Studying overseas was an amazing experience—exam days felt like being in Harry Potter since we had to wear formal academic robes. During my Master’s, I focused on the links between daily habits, nutrition, and disease patterns, particularly in relation to cancer.

That led me to pursue a Ph.D. in Epidemiology, where I focused even more on nutrition and its effects on both public health and climate change. Over the last four years, I developed a method to calculate greenhouse gas emissions associated with packaged foods. This was exciting because packaged foods are everywhere—in hospitals, schools, malls—and they significantly impact both human health and the environment.

One of the highlights of my Ph.D. was developing a potential food label that we pitched to the Australian government. While the U.S. doesn’t yet use similar labels, it was rewarding to work on something with real-world policy implications. The goal was to help consumers and industry leaders make more informed choices about nutrition and sustainability.

Now, I’ve transitioned back to full-time work as a Product Manager in Healthcare and Business Strategy at Exponential Data. This company specializes in machine learning and AI-driven solutions to improve healthcare data analysis. We work with pharmaceutical companies and electronic medical records, using AI to optimize data and provide better insights for patient care and treatment outcomes.

Traci: That sounds amazing. In your current position, you’re trying to untangle or weave a new web of data inputs. What does that mean for you day to day?

Allie: The biggest change from my Ph.D. to now is the breadth of projects. During my Ph.D., I worked on one specific thing in-depth for years. Now, I juggle multiple projects across different areas of healthcare.

For example, we work with pharmaceutical companies to analyze drug performance in different populations, particularly when patients have co-morbidities (multiple conditions at once). Understanding how different medications interact and which treatments work best in specific populations is critical.

On the clinical side, we analyze patient journey data—tracking commonalities in demographics, lifestyle, and outcomes. This aligns with my original interest in nutrition and how daily habits influence public health.

One major challenge in healthcare data is that systems are highly siloed. Electronic medical records, patient data, and treatment outcomes exist in separate databases, making it difficult to see the full picture. Our work focuses on linking and optimizing these data sources to improve analysis and decision-making.

Traci: I’m glad there are people like you doing this—it’s a lot to manage!

Christa: As an Information Science major, your skills are applicable to so many industries. How did you decide to focus on healthcare and nutrition?

Allie: My interest in food and health is personal. Growing up, my family ate a lot of fast food, and I had little understanding of what “healthy eating” really meant. Like many kids, I thought Diet Coke was a normal part of my diet!

As I studied public health and nutrition, I realized how much diet-related diseases—obesity, cancer, heart disease—are tied to modern food systems. Our food doesn’t look like what our grandparents ate, and that shift has serious consequences.

At the same time, I believe it’s okay to explore different interests. I took a detour into consulting and finance, which gave me valuable skills before returning to healthcare. My advice is that you don’t have to know exactly what you want to do—just follow your interests and take opportunities to explore.

Traci: You’ve touched on so many important topics. How do you see your work contributing to a healthier and more sustainable world?

Allie: My work bridges public health, sustainability, and policy. The epidemiology research I did informs better public health strategies, and now, at Exponential Data, we’re working on data-driven solutions to improve healthcare.

I also want to emphasize the importance of being a woman in STEM. Women are still underrepresented in tech and engineering, and I hope to create a supportive environment for future generations.

Traci: That’s a great point. Speaking of sustainability, tell us more about how climate change connects to food and nutrition.

Allie: The food system is the second-largest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, after energy. Food production accounts for about 30% of human-caused emissions. Meat production, in particular, has a huge environmental impact due to land use and methane emissions from cattle.

During my Ph.D., I analyzed over 30,000 unique ingredients in packaged foods to assess their environmental impact. We found that ingredients, rather than packaging or transportation, were the main drivers of emissions. That’s why shifting diets toward more sustainable food choices can have a big impact on both health and the planet.

Christa: Who are the key collaborators in this work?

Allie: Academics, industry leaders, and policymakers. Governments are starting to recognize the role of food in climate change, as seen at COP 28, where food was a major topic for the first time. Academic institutions provide the data, policymakers drive regulations, and industry leaders need to implement change.

Traci: Where do you go to stay current in your field?

Allie: I follow Food Politics by Marion Nestle, a Cornell Visiting Professor in Nutrition Science. She’s a great resource for global food and health policy discussions. I also recommend the Blue Zones documentary on Netflix, which explores diets and longevity in regions where people live past 100.

Christa: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Allie: I’d love to work on nutrition education for kids. One of my original Ph.D. proposals was a school lunch program to teach children where their food comes from and how to make healthier choices.

Traci: What do you do to relax?

Allie: I love being outdoors—hiking and running marathons. I’ve completed three of the six World Marathon Majors so far: London, New York, and Berlin.

Traci: That’s incredible! Allie, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.

Allie: Thank you! I hope this inspires students who are still figuring out their paths.

Christa: Thank you for listening. Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Driving Sustainable Change as a Consultant: Dayin Chen ‘17

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: This week in Engineering Career Conversations, we were very fortunate to interview Dayin Chen, who completed her undergraduate degree at Cornell in Operations Research in 2017. She just finished a two-year MBA at the Wharton School of Business and has now returned to Deloitte Consulting as a Senior Consultant in the Sustainability Strategy and Transformation Group.

Now, during our interview, you will hear several acronyms that we would like to clarify before we begin. P&L stands for Profit and Loss Statement. IRA refers to the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 in the United States. And Wharton ESG stands for Wharton’s numerous offerings around environmental, social, and governance platforms. We welcome you and hope you enjoy this incredible conversation as much as we did.

Traci: We are so happy to have you here today. We know that you have done so many things, and we’ve been reading about all your experiences. To start us off, can you tell us about your current work? What does your day look like?

Dayin Chen: I just graduated from a two-year business program and started work back in September. I returned to Deloitte Consulting, where I had worked for four years previously, but now I’m in a new role in their Sustainability Strategy and Transformation Group. My current project is with a beef, poultry, and prepared foods company with $50 billion in revenue. The specific project I’m working on is a $100 million sustainability initiative to expand regenerative farming practices across row crops and their beef business.

Traci: No small order. That sounds amazing.

Dayin: Yeah. The primary reason I returned to Deloitte after school—after exploring many different opportunities—was that I really wanted to understand how big companies work, how they operate, and how transformational change happens. A lot of the work isn’t glamorous or visionary in the way startup work can be. It’s less about creating new concepts and more about tackling the tactical challenges that existing companies face. I thought it was crucial to get this experience to inform my long-term career decisions—whether I continue down this path or eventually decide to launch something of my own.

Christa: Can you tell us what a typical day looks like for you?

Dayin: This project is fully remote for me. I work from my home office, though I live only 25 minutes from Deloitte’s physical office in downtown Philadelphia. My schedule is pretty standard—nine to five—at least for this client.

Right now, we are in the process of recruiting farmers to join our regenerative farming program. A big part of our work involves mapping the customer journey—specifically, the farmer journey. We are setting up processes, engaging vendors, determining what data we need to collect, and figuring out how to manage personally identifiable information. We then synthesize all this information so the company can track progress toward its business growth goals and overall sustainability targets.

This company is looking to reduce its Scope 3 emissions as well as its Scope 1 and 2 emissions, which pertain to its own value chain. Some of these emission reductions are being sold to downstream partners like retailers and fast food companies that purchase their meat products. So there’s a lot of partner engagement, data collection, and corporate strategy discussions involved.

The most interesting part for me is understanding how this sustainability work feeds into the company’s broader strategy. We all know beef is a high-emission product. As we reduce emissions, we also have to consider the long-term implications for their business. Will they need to shrink or pivot? These are tough questions, and while I don’t talk to the CEO directly, the leaders of our project do, and they’re having those high-level discussions.

Traci: It sounds both complicated and important. You mentioned journey maps earlier—can you talk about what that looks like in your work?

Dayin: Sure. One journey map we’re creating is for the farmers we’re recruiting into the program. We start by defining the persona—for example, a commodity corn farmer in Missouri with a 1,000-acre farm who has never used regenerative farming practices before.

Step one is identifying how we get in touch with them. Step two is building their interest and trust—how do we bring them into the top of our funnel? From there, we document the entire enrollment process, including forms, contracts, and data collection.

Then we track the implementation of their practices. If they commit to reducing tillage, we send soil samplers to collect data and use remote sensing to verify changes. The final step is payment—actually compensating the farmer for their efforts—and then working on retention. How do we re-sign them into the program and build long-term relationships?

It’s a detailed, visual process that requires stakeholder interviews, research, and iterations.

Christa: You’ve worked in both startups and large corporations. What are the key differences you’ve noticed?

Dayin: The biggest difference is the number of people involved in decision-making. Large corporations have more legal considerations—every contract is reviewed by general counsel, every step involves multiple approvals, and there are more bureaucratic hurdles. While startups can move faster, big companies have more resources and expertise.

Traci: What’s been the most significant challenge in your work?

Dayin: Two things:

First, dealing with difficult people. Early in my career, I had managers who were demanding or unclear in their communication, which could feel like personal attacks. Over time, I learned to separate work feedback from my self-worth and recognize when a work environment wasn’t the right fit.

Second, navigating sustainability in large corporations. Greenwashing is a real concern—companies may appear to be making progress while not truly addressing systemic issues. I constantly reevaluate whether the work I’m doing is impactful or just optics. It’s a tough balance, but for now, I’m gaining valuable experience in sustainability strategy.

Christa: That’s a huge consideration—how to measure real impact. How do you stay connected with others working in sustainability?

Dayin: Business schools and academic institutions are doing a lot of research on corporate sustainability. At Wharton, we discussed how sustainability still needs to tie back to financial metrics. Companies are realizing that things like reputational damage and supply chain disruptions can affect long-term shareholder value.

I also stay involved with the Wharton ESG Initiative and keep up with industry reports. It’s important to remain engaged with both academia and industry trends.

Traci: Let’s shift gears. What do you wish you knew as a sophomore?

Dayin: That careers are much longer than just your first job. I was so stressed about getting the perfect internship, but in hindsight, it didn’t define my career. I wish I had spent more time networking with professionals in roles I aspired to.

Traci: What courses had the greatest impact on you?

Dayin: At Wharton, Legal Aspects of Entrepreneurship was eye-opening. It revealed how corporate America operates, from tax structures to job security. It reinforced that working for a big company is great for stability but isn’t the best long-term wealth-building strategy.

Christa: How do you stay current with trends in your field?

Dayin: I deliberately choose projects that align with the latest regulations and business movements. I also read reports from Wharton ESG and industry publications.

Traci: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Dayin: Likely working in supply chain operations or growth strategy at a mid-sized company. Long term, I want to start my own business.

Christa: What do you do to relax?

Dayin: I meticulously plan my fun—hiking trips, movie nights, PTO. It helps me build anticipation and truly enjoy those moments.

Traci: That’s such a great strategy. Dayin, thank you for this insightful conversation.

Dayin: Thank you for having me.

Christa: Thank you for listening. Join us next time as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Leading the Way for Technology Access and Equity: Christine Chang ‘04

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: I’m here today with Christine, a mechanical engineering graduate from Cornell University, whose career spans work at NASA Johnson Space Center, Boeing, and in science education and policy. Christine is now in a doctoral program at the University of Colorado Boulder, where she investigates human-robot collaboration and communication supported via augmented reality, particularly in high-risk environments. As you’ll hear in this episode, Christine is deeply invested in increasing inclusion, equity, and justice in education and STEM fields. I’m glad to have her here today. So why don’t you start by telling us more about your current work?

Christine Chang: Sure. Yeah. So currently I am a Ph.D. student at the University of Colorado Boulder. I work in the Collaborative AI and Robotics Laboratory. I’m getting my Ph.D. in Computer Science, and I do research on human-robot interaction. This is a pretty broad field, but I am especially interested in looking at the human side of things—how we can improve the ways that humans can communicate and understand robots and vice versa.

Day to day, this involves a lot of different things. It can be building a system that I’m going to use in an experiment with humans and robots, designing experiments, writing—whether it’s writing code or academic papers—and reading. In addition to that, I do a lot of mentorship and service work, advising undergraduates and graduate students. I serve on different committees in the department and have been involved with the Computer Science Graduate Student Association as the Anti-Racism and Inclusion Chair, where I work with faculty in the department, college, and university.

Christa: Excellent. Can you tell us about your path that got you to where you are today?

Christine: Yeah. When I tell this story, I like to go all the way back to high school because that’s where it started. I saw the movie Apollo 13, and there’s a scene where engineers at NASA have to figure out how to make a square filter fit into a round hole using only available materials. I saw that and thought, That is what I want to do, and I want to do it at NASA.

At the time, I didn’t know that meant studying engineering. But I joined my high school’s robotics team, which was still new, and we participated in the FIRST Robotics Competition. I loved it. That experience solidified my decision to study aerospace or mechanical engineering.

At Cornell, I chose mechanical engineering because I knew I could get a strong education while also exploring other interests like writing and Spanish. I also participated in the co-op program, which led me to work at NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston. They offered me a job at graduation, and I took it.

At NASA, I worked on a variety of cool projects, including training as a flight controller for Mission Control, working with pyrotechnics testing and design, and developing a system to turn lunar regolith into breathable oxygen. It was an amazing experience, but at some point, I wanted to live in a different place, so I moved to Seattle to work at Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

While working, I had always been interested in education and decided to take a course at Boise State University. That led me to pursue a Master’s in Education and eventually teach junior high and high school students in math, science, and engineering.

Later, I transitioned into working at Boise State University in STEM outreach and diversity initiatives, helping faculty and students engage with local teachers and communities. One of my proudest achievements was starting a robotics team for high school girls. That team still exists today and has expanded to include students of all genders. Many of those girls have gone on to study engineering in college, which makes me incredibly proud.

As I got more involved in higher education and STEM diversity, I realized that I would need a Ph.D. to make a greater impact. When recruiting mentors for the robotics team, it was evident how few women worked in computer science and technology. That realization inspired me to study computer science for my Ph.D.

Now, I’m planning to graduate next year. It has been a winding path, but every step has informed the work I do today.

Christa: I love hearing about your journey. I think nonlinear paths often bring the most interesting perspectives.

Christine: Absolutely. Every experience I’ve had—NASA, teaching, outreach—has shaped the research I do today and the impact I hope to make.

Christa: Speaking of impact, how do you hope to use your Ph.D. to make the greatest difference?

Christine: That is really at the heart of my work. My goal is to improve our world through technology policy. That might sound idealistic, but I truly believe everyone can contribute to positive change at whatever level they are capable of.

In addition to my technical research, I have worked in technology policy. I was part of the Colorado Science and Engineering Policy Fellowship, where I proposed facial recognition legislation that has since been signed into law. I also interned with the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA), where I worked on AI accountability policy, digital discrimination, and other technology governance issues.

I want to continue influencing technology policy at the federal level and beyond. Equity is a major driver for me. Technology access is a human right, and policy decisions should reflect that. Many tech policy issues can be framed through a human rights lens, and once you do that, the solutions become much clearer.

Christa: It’s such important work, and I’m glad you’re pursuing it. What advice would you give to students who are interested in AI and equity but want to stay on the technical side?

Christine: There are many great resources. A good starting point is the Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency (FAccT) conference, where researchers publish work on ethical AI and responsible computing.

Another great event is the We Robot conference, which brings together technical experts, legal scholars, and policymakers to discuss robotics and AI. It’s a unique interdisciplinary experience that forces researchers to think beyond their immediate field.

For students, I recommend reaching out to people in law, ethics, and policy to expand their perspectives. Many universities have centers focused on technology policy and ethics—getting involved with those groups is invaluable.

Christa: That’s excellent advice. I always tell students to build a diverse network of people with different expertise. It leads to new opportunities and insights.

Christine: Yes! Every major career decision I’ve made has been influenced by someone in my network. A diverse network exposes you to new ideas and unexpected paths.

Christa: What courses at Cornell had the greatest impact on you?

Christine: The sophomore-year design class in mechanical engineering. It was the first time we had to apply what we learned to a real project, including machining our own designs. I didn’t do particularly well, but the experience taught me invaluable lessons about the iterative design process.

Christa: What advice do you have for undergraduates, especially sophomores?

Christine: Stick with it and follow your passions. I struggled in my sophomore year and questioned whether I should stay in engineering. But I pushed through, got a co-op offer from NASA, and realized that engineering was where I belonged. Even if your path changes later, it’s important to stay committed to what excites you.

Christa: This has been such an inspiring conversation. Thank you for sharing your story, Christine.

Christine: Thank you!

Christa: If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Water is Life: Alissa Diminich, ‘08, ‘09

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today, we’re joined by Alissa Diminich. Alissa is a principal engineer at Inflo Design Group, primarily working on drinking water and wastewater projects. She has her bachelor’s and master’s, both from Cornell, in civil and environmental engineering. While at Cornell, she was a member of the AguaClara project team and, as an alumna, has served on the board of the nonprofit AguaClara Reach, which works to advance the design and innovation of community-scale gravity-powered water treatment technologies. Hello, Alissa, how are you?

Alissa Diminich: I’m good, thanks. How are you?

Christa: Good. It’s great to have you here today.

Alissa: Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Christa: So our first question is pretty basic. We want you to tell us about your current work. What are you working on? What are you excited about?

Alissa: Sure. So I’m currently a civil engineer. I work primarily in water and wastewater design. Right now, I’m doing a lot of drinking water work, which can be really varied. I’m in the Middle Tennessee area, right near Nashville, and this region is experiencing so much population growth that infrastructure is working hard to keep up.

For a lot of water utilities in this region, that means a lot of planning needs to happen, and they have significant work to do to keep up with the growing demands. In my role, I’m not only helping with specific designs for treatment and water distribution but also helping utilities think through: What do we need? How do we get there? It’s a lot of planning and looking at an overall program for growing their system, rather than just saying, Oh, we need a new pump station or treatment plant.

Traci: Well, I’ve worked with a lot of water engineers and adjacent professionals over the years, and they often say no two days are ever the same. What does your day look like? Do you have an average pattern?

Alissa: What you’re saying is absolutely true because it really depends on where you are in a project. Right now, I’m spending a lot of time with one of our clients, helping them with ongoing work at their treatment plant. I get to stay really focused with them.

Some days, I work from home on designs, talk to manufacturers about new equipment, or prepare updates for the plant staff. One day a week, I’m on-site at the water treatment plant, talking with operators about what’s working well and where they’re having problems. I want their feedback because they’re the ones running the plant every day. My goal is to design systems that make their lives easier, reduce pressure on them, and ensure that they have reliable, well-functioning systems.

I’ve also spent a lot of time on-site for construction projects. I was a resident engineer for a recent water treatment plant construction project that lasted about a year and a half. Seeing things I had designed get built and making sure they were built correctly was incredibly rewarding. That experience helped me think about design differently—how can we make things better for the next time?

Traci: Many water engineers I’ve spoken with emphasize a deep sense of responsibility because water is life. Can you talk about how you view your work in that context?

Alissa: Absolutely. We are so privileged. When I say, I turn on my faucet and expect clean, safe water, that comes from a very specific perspective—one of living in a place where access to clean drinking water is ensured. That should be the case globally, but unfortunately, it’s not.

In my current job, I work locally to help utilities maintain and expand their services. But personally, I also think it’s important to share expertise in other settings. That can mean having conversations with my neighbors about infrastructure, raising awareness, or working with nonprofits that address water access.

For example, I’ve been involved with AguaClara Reach, which was born out of a Cornell design team. AguaClara Reach focuses on sharing open-source drinking water treatment technology in places where conventional approaches may not work well. It’s exciting to be part of an organization that is making an impact beyond just my local area.

Traci: Thank you. That was beautifully said. You’ve also shared insightful perspectives on workplace challenges and impostor syndrome. Can you walk us through those thoughts?

Alissa: Sure. Looking back, I realize that once I get through a challenge, I tend to think, That wasn’t so bad—because I made it through.

Early in my career, I really struggled with impostor syndrome. I felt like there were things I should know but didn’t, and I worried people would find out. At some point, though, I had a shift in mindset—I realized that not knowing is an opportunity. Now, when I meet someone who is really knowledgeable, I get excited to ask questions.

I wish I had figured that out sooner. Now, I tell younger engineers: Ask all the questions! There’s never a better time to learn. People respect honesty. When I say something with confidence, my colleagues believe me because they know I’m also willing to admit when I don’t know something.

Traci: When we prepared for this interview, you mentioned that motherhood has shifted your perspective. Can you share more?

Alissa: Absolutely. I have two young kids—almost three and almost one. Motherhood is one of the most challenging things I’ve ever experienced, but it’s also made me care even more about my work.

I feel so fortunate to work for a company that supports flexibility. Returning from maternity leave, I had control over my transition back, and I still have a schedule that allows me to balance my work and family. That flexibility has been everything. If I had a more rigid corporate job, something would have had to give, and it likely would have been my job.

Going through this experience has made me realize how critical workplace support is. We need to do better at supporting employees, because when people struggle personally, their work suffers too.

Christa: What do you wish you knew as a sophomore?

Alissa: I wish I hadn’t just focused on checking the boxes for my degree. There’s so much to learn beyond the requirements! I wish I had embraced that curiosity more—taken courses purely out of interest and soaked up all the knowledge available.

Traci: You did both your bachelor’s and master’s at Cornell. What classes stood out to you?

Alissa: My intro to engineering course on water treatment changed everything for me. We had these little bench-scale treatment systems, and I was fascinated by how we could start with muddy water and end up with clean water.

That class was taught by Monroe Weber-Shirk, and it set my entire trajectory. He’s influenced so many people’s careers, including mine.

Christa: Where do you go to stay current in your field?

Alissa: The American Water Works Association (AWWA) and Water Environment Federation (WEF) are great for keeping up with advancements in water and wastewater engineering.

Traci: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Alissa: Something related to the environment. I’ve gotten really into native plants and sustainable landscaping. If I had unlimited time, I’d probably do something in landscape architecture, focusing on native and non-invasive plants.

Traci: What do you do to relax?

Alissa: Gardening. When I’m overwhelmed, I go outside. Whether it’s tending to my vegetable garden or just playing outside with my kids, fresh air keeps me grounded.

Christa: Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.

Alissa: Thank you! This was fun.

Christa: If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Perfecting Piano Product Design and Development: Emilie Camera ‘17, ‘18

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today, we are talking with Emilie Camera. Emilie has had a fascinating early career arc, working first in product development for medical devices at Fikst and now as a mechanical engineer for Steinway & Sons. She works on specialized bespoke and limited-edition pianos along with Steinway’s regular production. Emilie has a lot to share with us, and we’re glad you’re here.

Emilie, it’s so good to have you here today. Welcome.

Emilie Camera: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Christa: I would love to have you start by telling us about the exciting work that you’re doing and how you got here.

Emilie: My current position is at Steinway & Sons as a mechanical engineer. Specifically, my job involves working on custom pianos—limited editions, one-of-a-kinds, bespoke designs. We typically do limited runs of about 50 pianos, though that could change in the future. Essentially, I work on anything that deviates from our standard production models.

Christa: What does that look like in terms of applying your mechanical engineering skills? What does your day-to-day work involve?

Emilie: I get to see a lot of unique designs come in. I work closely with industrial designers who submit concepts, and my role involves evaluating feasibility. Sometimes that means tearing apart a design and having discussions about what is and isn’t possible. There’s a lot of negotiation and education involved, since many designers don’t know the intricacies of piano manufacturing.

For example, I have to ensure that new designs still accommodate necessary structural features—things like shipping requirements, assembly logistics, and acoustic integrity. Every day brings a new challenge, and that makes it a fun job.

Christa: You mentioned to me that you travel abroad for work. Can you talk more about that?

Emilie: Steinway has two factories—one in Queens, New York, and one in Hamburg, Germany. A few months ago, I visited the Hamburg factory to see how their operations run. It was fascinating to compare the differences and similarities between the two factories since we make the same product in both locations.

While in Europe, we also collaborated with Italian designers on a bespoke piano. We traveled to Florence to visit their studio, see their craftsmanship in action, and ensure everything aligned with our manufacturing capabilities.

Traci: Many students dream about designing a product they personally love, but they often see it as unattainable. How did you get to this place where you’re designing pianos and merging your passion with your engineering skills?

Emilie: This position is truly the perfect combination of my passion for music and my expertise in mechanical engineering and product development. I’ve always been involved in music—I play the violin and used to play piano more actively. Steinway has always been a name I recognized because of my musical background.

But if you had asked me while I was in school, I wouldn’t have thought of this as an option. The realization came when I was job searching. I started thinking, What are things I love? Who makes them? How can I be part of that process?

That led me to discover an open position at Steinway, and I applied. It turns out that everything needs to be designed by someone—every product, every detail. If there’s something you love, there’s probably an engineer behind it.

Traci: That’s such an important realization. Everything we use has to be designed by someone, and there are so many opportunities that engineers don’t initially think about.

Emilie: Exactly. I was also surprised to learn how much engineering goes into what many consider an artisan-crafted instrument. While Steinway pianos are made by highly skilled craftspeople, there’s still a need for engineers to ensure the right materials are used, the design specifications are met, and the manufacturing process runs smoothly.

Traci: What are some of the technical skills you use daily?

Emilie: A big part of my job involves CAD modeling and designing custom components. With bespoke and limited-edition pianos, the challenges vary. For one-of-a-kind pianos, we focus on how to produce a single unit without disrupting the production line too much. For limited editions, we have to integrate changes efficiently while maintaining Steinway’s high-quality standards.

Another key aspect is testing. When we introduce new designs—whether it’s a different leg structure or an innovative support mechanism—we have to ensure they are structurally sound and won’t fail under stress. Since Steinway pianos are meant to last more than a lifetime, we don’t take shortcuts when it comes to quality control.

Traci: What are some of the biggest challenges you face, and how do you navigate them?

Emilie: One of the hardest phases in product development is the early stage when things are still nebulous. Sometimes, you don’t even know the right questions to ask. That can be frustrating, but over time, I’ve learned to approach it methodically. Instead of worrying about finding answers, I focus on defining what I don’t know and what I need to figure out next.

Traci: That’s a great approach—acknowledging the unknown unknowns and working from there.

Christa: Our podcast often explores themes of creating a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world. How do you see your work fitting into that broader picture?

Emilie: Initially, I struggled with that question. My previous job was in medical devices, where it was easy to see the direct impact on people’s health. When I transitioned to pianos, I had a moment where I thought, Am I really making a difference?

But then I realized that the arts are vital to human well-being. Music brings people joy, and instruments like pianos enable artistic expression. While my work might not be as tangible as life-saving medical devices, it still contributes positively to the world.

Traci: That resonates. During difficult times—like the pandemic—people turned to the arts for comfort. Music, literature, and film were essential in helping people cope.

Emilie: Absolutely. The value of music in our lives shouldn’t be underestimated.

Christa: Who are the key collaborators in your work?

Emilie: The craftspeople at Steinway are a huge resource. Some of them have been with the company for 30 or 40 years. While I have an engineering degree, they have a lifetime of hands-on expertise in piano-making. I always consult them first when developing new designs.

Understanding the end user is also crucial. I talk to piano technicians, tuners, and salespeople to gather feedback. They interact with customers daily and provide valuable insights into what works and what could be improved.

Traci: What do you wish you knew as a sophomore?

Emilie: I wish I hadn’t stressed so much about following the “right” path. There’s no single way to build a career. You don’t have to do exactly what everyone else is doing—just focus on learning and exploring what excites you.

Christa: What classes had the biggest impact on you?

Emilie: MAE 2250—the intro to prototyping and machining—was a game changer. It gave me hands-on experience and introduced me to product development.

Another key course was Innovative Product Design, which really solidified my interest in this field. Seeing a product come to life through iterative design was incredibly rewarding.

Traci: Where do you go to stay current in your field?

Emilie: I keep up with manufacturing best practices, lean production methods, and design for manufacturability. I also follow industry-specific blogs about pianos and high-end craftsmanship.

Christa: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Emilie: If I stayed in engineering, I’d still be in product development—just working on a different product. My childhood dream was to be a professional musician, but now I realize I’ve found a way to stay connected to the music world in a way that fits me better.

Traci: You found a rare intersection of passions.

Emilie: They’re out there! If you love something, there’s probably an engineering role connected to it.

Christa: Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

Emilie: Thank you!

Christa: If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode as we celebrate engineers making a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Any Person, Any Study, Any Friend: Tony Chen ’12

Christa Downey: Welcome to the Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: Today we are talking with Tony Chen, who has made it his mission to connect Cornell alumni with each other, with events of interests, to bring people together, to build community, to grow the Cornell connections. And we’re always promoting connections with students. Tony will share some nuggets on how to think about this as a systems approach, how to apply systems engineering to networking. So join us. Tony, we’re so glad to have you here today. This is a special edition of the Engineering Career Conversations. And you are working so hard on keeping Cornellians connected, inviting them to a thriving alumni network. And can you please tell us more about the Cornell global mixers and the continuous reunion efforts.

Tony Chen: Yeah. So the mixers are every two weeks on Saturday Evenings. We started during the pandemic. March 2020 the pandemic happened. And then there were many events. Like I was already involved in Cornell events before the pandemic, Like every week, we would go run 3 miles and have lunch together. We would go to the museum. We would watch a new sport every month. And it’s like we had a lot of events before the pandemic out in DC, and the pandemic happened and then they stopped. During the pandemic, I started doing the Zoom calls. So everybody gets to still see each other. So that’s been going on for four years now, 2020 to 2024, every two weeks. Like, maybe like 6,000-8,000 Cornellians have been through the mixers now. People come and make friends with each other, and they come back again and again, every two weeks to see each other again. People make friends. And then, like, you see a lot of life changes over time, too. Some Cornellians they lose their job. They find a job. In the course of those four years, some Cornellians start graduate degree school. And then a couple of years later, they finish their graduate degree school. You see the life cycles of Cornell throughout the Zoom call.

Christa: It sounds like you started this with your group that you were already networking with in DC, and you’ve expanded it. So it’s Cornellians anywhere, is that right?

Tony: The pandemic like isolated all of us. At the same time, brought us all of us together, too. The pandemic, I think if the pandemic didn’t happen, I would still run the events in DC. And it would only been DC people. But because like everybody around the world had a similar issue, we all expanded globally. It was Alumni Affairs and Development, they’re very helpful. May time around May or April. They had a wonderful event. They brought together all the different Cornell clubs, and then all the Cornell cubs shared what kind of things they were doing I was doing the crosswords, the NY Times Crossword every week with, like, ten, 20 Cornellians every week on Saturdays at 3:00 P.M. Eastern Time. So I talked a little bit about the crossword. And then I think Cornell Club, Boston talked a little bit about the events they’ve been organizing. Now I realized that everybody had the same issues. So I started organizing the mixers through that. All the clubs got to meet each other that way.

Christa: We need to get a link in our show notes to where people can learn about these mixers.

Tony: I’ll send it over to you. Yeah, it’s been the same link for, like, 3.5 years now.

Traci: And can you tell us then about the continuous reunions? How are they different?

Tony: Oh, gee. Yeah, I hope everybody goes to a reunion every year. No, not just every five years, not every ten years, but every year. The continuous reunion club. We’ve been coming to reunion every year since 1908. Yeah, I always tell people to go to reunion every year because it’s the best way to meet alumni. Everybody’s back in Ithaca. Nobody’s working, everybody gets to meet each other. And then it’s all very, like, informal ways of meeting each other. So people are much more likely to make friends with each other that way. But there’s so many events too.

Christa: Yeah, what are your favorite events at the reunion?

Tony: Oh, gee, it depends on the person. Like, if you’re a lawyer. You can get continued legal education credits, COE credits. There’s always like three COE credits you can get every time. If you’re in business, you got all the kinds of good business lectures there, too. They are like, AI in business this year, I think. I’m very excited about that one. And then if you’re in engineering. There’s like I always go to electrical engineering happy hour on Friday afternoons. And then I also always go to the AEP Engineering physics breakfast every Saturday morning. They have very good quiches every morning. And then last year was a new one, too. They have a graduate school one, too. For the longest time, the graduate students didn’t really have, like, a dorm to stay in or a place to go. Now, the graduate school has been doing so many more graduate school events, too. So if they only went to graduate school at Cornell, there’s still there’s a lot of events you can go to. They had a what’s a golf game called on the lawn?

Christa: Bocce ball?

Tony: Yeah, they had like a Bocce game, I think last year. And they also had a graduate engineering afternoon tea as well. That was a, well, they had a live band, too for that one. Was out in Upson Hall where they have a nice little patio out there. They had a little music band playing there, and the graduate students come back to. And then I wish everybody would come back to reunion every year. I love it.

Traci: Now, the other thing that you help everybody, a way you keep everybody connected is through the newsletter. And so it’s a newsletter for alumni, if I understand correctly. So what is the general, I’ll start with this. What is the general focus of that newsletter?

Tony: Oh, I try to connect Cornellians, in every possible way. True, very hard to find all the different ways to connect Cornelians with each other. So, the news has all the events happening around the world. All the Cornell events. I go through like 20 or 30 lists every week and just look for all the events because otherwise, it’s too hard for each individual Cornelian to look for every event. And then I get them onto one big list, that way everybody knows what events are happening. Cornell Tech has a lot of really good events in New York City. But if you didn’t go to Cornell Tech, you wouldn’t know about those events. Weill Cornell has so many good events, as well. And then if you didn’t go to Weill Cornell, you wouldn’t be knowing about those events either. The Cornell ILR Conference Center has a lot of events. All the different Cornell Clubs all around the world have different events. So there are a lot of people that don’t know about the events. So I put them all into one place. So that’s one way of connecting Cornellians. Another one is jobs. A lot of Cornellians are looking for jobs. Lot of Cornellians are looking to hire people, too. I see all those Cornellians posting jobs. I see all those Cornellians looking to looking for a job, but they don’t see each other’s posts because they’re not connected with each other. I see both sides. I try very hard to copy and paste all the jobs into one place so that the Cornellians looking for a job could see that list of all the jobs, and they could reach out to the Cornellians, looking to hire. That one worked pretty good. Last week, someone told me they found a job through it. Another person told me that he got an interview from it. They didn’t get the job, but he got interview from it. Yeah, it works out pretty good.

Christa: It just sounds like you’re really dedicating your time, all of your time, you know, it sounds like you’re dedicating this time of your life to supporting other Cornellians, connecting other Cornellians.

Tony: There’s 250,000 Cornellians. And Cornellians do all kinds of interesting things too. So I tried very hard to find all of those and then feature them. Now that way more Cornellians can know they can do all those interesting things too. Last month, Cornellian was running for US House, the House of Representatives. We went out to San Antonio for the campaign launching event. Then another Cornellian runs like a women’s art gallery in New York City. I was out to that. And then a couple other woman artists reached out to her through that. And we always do a variety of different things, all kinds of different things. Yeah, I wish more Cornellians would know about them.

Christa: Yeah, you’re a PR person for Cornellians. I love it. So what’s the greatest challenge you face in doing this work?

Tony: There’s so much Cornellians out there, and all the information is like everywhere. It’s like scattered everywhere. And then I try very hard to aggregate them into one place. There’s so much information everywhere. I think there’s just so much, I always say that there’s a lot of abundance in the Cornell community. Abundance. Whereas, the issue is a lot of Cornellians aren’t connected a lot of Cornellians. They don’t know about a lot of the events. There’s a feeling of scarcity. And scarcity is not good. It’s important to have a feeling of abundance. That we try for bigger things that we find a job within a week rather than a couple of months.

Christa: Tony, I love this perspective of abundance, and I feel that way about many things in life, as well, particularly with regard to networks and getting out there and making connections and, you know, meeting new people and all of that. And certainly, with regard to careers. I know so many students struggle when they’re not getting what they’re looking for. They’re struggling to make some connections. They’re struggling to find the internship that they’re looking for, the job that they’re hoping for. And how do we balance that? You know? What might you say to that student who’s really struggling to find what they’re looking for and how to see it from this perspective of abundance? Not only just see it, but how to act from a place of abundance, perhaps.

Tony: I didn’t meet the alumni when I was a student. I really wish I knew it earlier. I think there’s a lot of events, like very soon, where you could meet a alumni. For example, you can sign up to be a reunion clerk. And then you would be assigned a class, like a class of 1950, what year is this? 1954, or 1964. We’re in 1969, or 1974. You could be assigned of the classes, and you’re like, they’re a clerk for them. So you make sure that everybody signed in correctly. Everybody can find their housing correctly. And that is just such a good way to meet alumni. Because all the alumni talk to you. They’re so happy to be back and you’re so helpful to them. They’re all really, really happy to talk to you if have, like, career advice questions that you have. I think the thing that really clicked for me is when you see all those alumni, 50 years out of college, and they’re still such good friends with each other. I think that’s when I realized. I’ve got to make more Cornell friends. Because after 30, 40, 50 years, I’ll still be friends with them, and then it’s a wonderful friendship when it’s over the lifetime, and then you see them like we go through different jobs, go through different life cycles, their kids graduate from high school, and you just see a lot of different things over time. So I wish I was a reunion clerk. I think that’s one good way to tap in. And another way to tap into the feeling of abundance is go going to more Cornell events. There’s events all around the world right now. And then if you go anywhere in the world for the summer, there’s always going to be a Cornell event somewhere nearby. So I recommend you going to event events. I think like for example, if you’re in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area, there’s a very good crab feast coming up. I love the crab feast. They go to the beach. They have, hot dogs, they have crabs, they have beer, it’s a very wonderful event. And like 200-300 Cornellians go to that one. So yeah, that’s coming up, I think on June 23. That is an example of an event to go to. There’s also, like, Boston, for example, they have their annual meeting. The head of the Botanic Garden at Cornell is going to Boston to speak about the Botanic Gardens. New York City has so many events, too, throughout the whole summer. You should meet more Cornelians over the summer, too.

Traci: I love your perspective about the friends that you make in college, whether they’re alumni or they’re in your very same class. You know, they stay with you for forever if you’re lucky. That’s certainly the case for me. 35 years later, me and my first week, bestie we’re still hanging out all these years later. And I think that those are important connections for all of us to make. And so with all of this energy and this idea of abundance, I love this framework that you have, Tony. We wanted to ask you, too, about what do you see, what do you hear, in these conversations when all of these people are gathering together, about how Cornellians are changing the world for the better? How are they helping create a sustainable world, better world, in whatever way that might look? What are some, a story or two, that you’ve heard?

Tony: I really like Cornell’s motto, “Any person any study”. I think it’s really, really good. The world is like, very unfair. A lot depends on where you’re born, who you’re born to. Like, a lot of it depends on that. And education is a way to make the world a little bit more fair. So even if you’re not born, in one of wealthier areas, and even if you’re not born to wealthier parents, you can still come to Cornell. You can still come to Cornell, you’ll fit right in, and you’ll still be very successful afterwards. You can still pursue any career afterwards. I think that’s something that I admire a lot a lot about Cornell. I think that I think that you make the world a little bit fair. You’ll have a lot more ideas coming in on how to solve different problems, and then you can go out afterwards and solve those. I think one worry I have with “any person any study” is that sometimes in a lot of different things that you try to do, it’s not enough. Just studying a lot doesn’t get you very far in a lot of careers. You have to have the network, too. So to the point, just going to Cornell is not enough. You have to have the Cornell connections afterwards, too. So, any person, any study, any friend. It goes on after you graduate, you still make more friends. So like right after you graduate. You’re not done making Cornell friends yet. You can still make more Cornell friends. So, for example, if you go into paralegal and want to go to law school, you can come to Cornell events and meet lawyers and learn about the different lawyer practice areas. So by time you go to law school, you know which practice area you would like. So if you’re starting out as an engineer and you’re trying to figure out whether you want to go down a path of managing engineers or you want to go into a more technical role, you can come to Cornell events and talk to Cornellians and learn about different trade offs between the two paths. You’re not done making friends after finishing Cornell. You can still make more friends relevant to your career and that will help your career. So it’s not just the friends you made from before, there’s friends you make in the future too. So Cornellians come from all over the place from everywhere, and then afterwards, they can be successful in any career trajectory that they choose to go in.

Traci: I’m so excited that you said, “any person, any study, any friend”. That’s amazing. It resonates with every single Cornellian. And then your addition “any friend” talks about the networking. You know, this is part of who we are here, right? Helping each other out, getting through our studies, getting through our jobs, finding inspiration out there in the world from other people. I just love that addition that you made to the motto, if you will.

Christa: I love it. I love it. So there’s so much good advice here, and uplifting advice for the young people who are still trying to figure out, who are their connections? How do they tap into this network? And what does that look like? Where to begin? I’m wondering if someone wants to connect with you. Is that something you’re available for? I mean, are you open to meeting any student who wants to reach out and talk?

Tony: I already talk to ten a day right now, every day. And then, during, like, the layoffs, like two years ago, I was talking to like 25, 30 a day, every day. I try very hard to meet every Cornellian. It’s very important to meet every Cornellian.

Christa: I love that. We’re going to include a link to your LinkedIn, and I’m guessing that is the best way?

Tony: That’s the best way to reach out to me, yeah, and I post a lot on LinkedIn about Cornellians, too. And then, one recommendation that I have actually, is when you start building your network there’s like, if every person is like a node, like, everybody’s a node, and you’re trying to connect different nodes with each other, with lines. You have a node and a node here and you draw a line between the nodes, it’s good, that’s way you start out. You start drawing lines between your node and the other person’s node. And you end up with a lot of lines. But it’s hard to maintain when you have like 300 lines it’s really hard to maintain those lines because you have to, like, once a year, you have to catch up with each line. And then the 300 lines that you have to maintain. So that’s like a one a day every day, and then you end up running out of time. Like, as your network grows, it’s more, think of it in terms of boxes. Rather than having a line of maintaining each individual line, you have a box of nodes. So, Cornell for example, is like a big box of nodes. It’s easier to maintain boxes rather than lines. Because if you go to reunion every year, for example, you automatically reconnect with like 100 people with just one event. Walking around, you reconnect with a lot of people inside that box. Then if you like if you’re part of the Cornell Debate Team, for example, for the Debate Team Sam Nelson goes out New York City. He has a lot of different events around debate. So that’s a good way to maintain your box of nodes. If you’re on a sports athletic team, if you’re on – I was part of Risley and every December we have our Risley get together, our Holiday get together on Zoom. And like the founder of Risley Residential College would come and everybody would share their little Risley stories. That’s a good box as well. Rather than thinking of each connection as a line, think of it as a box. And you should always come back to reunion, always come back to all the different events around each of the groups. That is easier to maintain. Maintenance is very important for relationships.

Christa: Thank you, Tony. I’m going to start using that one, too. I mean, I hope that every student listens to your podcast, and also as I talk with students about their networks, I do think for many people, it’s overwhelming to think about how do I keep up with these relationships? And the way that you talk about it as boxes and more from a community perspective. I think is both, you know, takes away some of the time and energy and, you know, all of that to maintain, and also can make it more lively and, you know, comfortable, and smooth and inspiring. More conversations can happen. I think there’s a lot to this. That’s a great nugget of advice.

Tony: I always try to do events are recurring as well for that reason. If it’s a recurring event, like every two weeks, we have the Zoom call mixer. Every month, we meet at a food court in New York City. Like, every week we do the crossword together. It’s all recurring, week after week, after week after week. Yeah, that really helps maintain the box because if you just come to one, and in like a couple of months later, you come to another one, you’ll see a lot of the same people again, so it helps you maintain that box. I think it’s very important to have these recurring events that happen again and again. Reunion, for example, every year since 1908, we’ve been coming back to reunion every year. Like that’s a good example of a box.

Traci: I’m really interested in how, so even though I’m an instructor and I do work like this, I am an extreme introvert. I get very nervous meeting new people, although I mask it very well. I look like I’m fine, but on the inside, I’m like full of anxiety or I’m extremely tired or whatever it might be. So it’s really, really difficult. And I love these casual inroads that you’ve created for people, like the crossword event. I’m completely drawn to that idea. And so for people like me who have a really hard time, who are stretching themselves to do networking, do you have any advice for those kind of folks that it’s a little bit difficult to dive in the deep end?

Tony: The one thing I try very hard to do, like at the food court events, is I always circle around and look for people who aren’t talking to anybody, might be a little shyer. And I try very hard to learn more about them and then connect them with other similar people within the event. So I try really hard to make sure everybody has a chance to talk to people. I think I think that might be one way to help the more introverted people.

Christa: So when the introverts show up at events, they should look for you.

Tony: Yeah, that way they can connect.

Christa: I have a question for you. So what class had the greatest impact on you when you were a Cornell?

Tony: There’s a lot of things that stand out. After the fact, I realized how helpful they were. One thing I did was the debate team. That helped a lot. It helped with, like, a lot of the communication skills. It also how to form an argument, how to listen to the other side, and respond. That was very good practice. Another really good thing was EARS training, empathy, assistance, and referral. I think the EARS, that one was really good too. I took the level one training, and I took the level two training. There, you learn how to be a good listener. You listen really hard. Try not to judge, just listen very hard, and then try thinking through how are they feeling, the way they’re feeling. Then I just very good practice as well.

Christa: This is great. I imagine these two things, whether you’ve thought about it, you know, maybe helped lead you in the direction to where you are now. And so I’m wondering when you were younger, maybe as a child, or maybe as an incoming first year student at Cornell, what did you imagine yourself doing for your career?

Tony: When I came in, I only knew I liked math and physics. I began applied engineering and physics because they had a class called Mathematical Physics. A great class. I love that class. Beautiful. Through Cornell, I did a lot of other things. I lived in Risley. I did performing arts there. I did a law and society minor. So I learned about all the different laws in societies and the humanities. I did research with the Sociology Department. So as I learned a lot about networks and sociology. I did debate team with all the government majors and policy people. Really, help me expand and get a feel for what more I like in addition to just math and physics. Cornell was very helpful for that. Ever since I graduated, I never used applied physics afterwards. I never did integrals ever again. I’ve always wondered, like, how it helped. I was thinking about it this morning. I realized that in a career, you build up intuition, you build up skills, and you build up relationships. So intuition, skills, and relationships. If you want to get real really good at something, you have to build up intuition, skills, and relationships to do that one thing really, really well. At Cornell the classes, the lectures, that taught a lot of intuition. You get a lot of good intuition about it. They give you a lot of backs and you have to get used to the facts. You have to get to understand the facts, internalize it, adjust it. And that’s good for intuition. The skills from the lab classes, the lab classes give you a lot of skills. So how do pipetting and how to do the programming, how to build the semiconductor thing in lab class. And the relationships, I got that from the clubs and the other activities I did. You learn how to build up intuition. You learned how to build up the skills, you learned how to build up the relationships. And then after that, well, like, in the real world, you start to choose, like a place that you want in an industry that you really want to be good at. And once you choose that industry, you got build up the intuition, the skills and the relationships. For me, for example, I really want to connect all the Cornellians with each other. So I try very hard to build up the intuition around it by meeting every Cornellian, by learning everything about all the different Cornell events. So I build all the intuition. Just having a list of classes, having a list of facts isn’t enough. You have to really internalize the build intuition on what Cornell are doing, what Cornell is doing. And then the skills, is like the marketing, like get the word out about different events, you’ve got to get the word out about different things. I got organized events. That’s another skill. Another skill is like talking and listening and trying really hard to build a relationship with everybody. So that’s the skill side. And then the relationship side, I guess I try to meet every Cornellian, all different age ranges, all different majors, all different places around the world. Those are relationships. And because I build up the intuition, the skills and the relationships for it, I can connect Cornellians a lot better this way.

Traci: Thank you for that. I don’t even know what to expect for the answer for this next one. What do you do to relax and have fun and re-energize yourself.

Tony: So it’s mostly just meeting Cornellians. I like changes in scenery, so I come to Ithaca. I love coming to Ithaca. A lot of times the big cities like DC, New York, Boston, have a lot of things happening all at once. Whereas Ithaca, it’s like, much more manageable. That’s a good way. Coming to the reunion, I think that helps a lot. Well, one thing I actually try to do, I try very hard to do is I try very hard to systemize things. It’s like, the analogy I use is like, if you’re juggling, you’re juggling like three things at once, I have like three balls in the air. You’ve got to remember, you have the red ball, the blue ball, and the yellow ball, where those two other balls are. But once you have, like 20 balls in the air, then it’s really hard to remember where each of the 20 is at. So instead, you have to think of it in terms of a system and each individual ball at a time. So rather than thinking where each ball is, you think right hand, left hand, or where to throw each ball when it does come down, and then you create a little system. Rather than thinking of each individual ball individually. I do that a lot with my events, the recurring events, every two weeks. I don’t have to think about it. I don’t have to think when’s the next Zoom call. I know it’s in two weeks. Just like has been two weeks ago, just has been like four weeks ago. I think the systems help manage a lot of juggle. Like, the newsletter. Every month, I publish a newsletter. That helps a lot, too. It becomes like a system. Like, what day do I have my newsletter? It’s at the end of the month, it’s time to do the newsletter again. Systems that helps, like everybody to, like, get on the same schedule as well. That helps a bunch, too. So systemize. I always think in terms of system. It doesn’t really help me relax, but it relieves a lot of the stress and to all that.

Christa: You’re engineering your life. I love it.

Traci: Yeah. A wise person told me many years ago that engineering gives you a systems way of thinking, and I think that you’ve just explained the benefit of that in this context very, very well. Thank you so much for your time today. I’m getting energy just listening to you and having this conversation, and I’ve learned about events that I didn’t even know about. And so for that, if nothing else, I’m absolutely thankful. But your energy bringing together all of these people from all of the different majors, and just welcoming them back to campus, with your energy and the way that you want to hold all these people together, right given their time at Cornell. I just think it’s a really wonderful thing that you’re doing. And so the whole campus owes you a thank you as far as I’m concerned.

Tony: Like, I’m very, very fortunate to be a Cornellian. I’m very, very fortunate. I think, like, when I applied to Cornell I had no idea there was such a wonderful alumni network. And I’m very fortunate that I chose Cornell. I think that Cornell really brings a lot of people together from all kinds of different ways so that after graduation, Cornellians all still come together. I took classes with all kinds of different majors. I took classes with MBAs. I took classes with JDs, I took classes with Hotelies. Like it really brings people together. And I’m very grateful for having gone to Cornell. Like, I think after graduation, then it really sunk in and I was like, wow, I’m very fortunate to be a Cornellian.

Christa: And we’re fortunate to have you. Thank you so much for doing all of this, Tony. Thank you for listening. If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Pioneering Sustainable Materials with Machine Learning: Florencia Paredes ’11

Christa Downey: I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you. We had the wonderful opportunity to speak with Florencia Paredes, who is the Head of Product at Citrine Informatics. She was a 2011 graduate of the Materials Science major at Cornell, and at that time, the kind of work that she does now didn’t even exist. Join us as we explore the fascinating work she does each and every day. Florencia, it’s good to have you here today.

Florencia Paredes: Great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Christa: Yes, thank you. Can you tell us start by telling us about your current work?

Florencia: Yeah, so I lead product at Citrine informatics. It’s a software company at the intersection of machine learning and material science, and it’s really focused on helping materials engineers create new materials faster. You know, all over the news these days, you might hear headlines about the impact of materials from limiting pollution from chemical plants to the need for better battery energy storage systems. We help a lot of those companies. So we see a lot of those great projects coming through and working with our product. And that’s really where we come in and we help these big companies develop new materials for the future, and we’re really focused on sustainability. And I’m happy to give an an example on how our software works. So for example, let’s say that I am a materials engineer, and I’m working on specific plastic, like an ABS plastic. A plastic that is used for making car parts, like the dashboard of your car or making toys, and my goal, is to remove some banned flame retardants. Specific chemicals that are added to the plastic to make it more resistant to burning. Maybe these flame retardants are known to cause cancer. I want to remove them from these plastics, especially if they’re toys, but even in cars. I want to remove the specific chemicals from that plastic, and that plastic is made of think of a recipe or formulation of a lot of different chemicals. I’m trying to remove one specific chemical when I make it. But I also want to maintain those mechanical properties of my plastic, for example, like strength and ductility and toughness. As a materials engineer, I can use the Citrine platform and upload all my past experimental data of all the tests, strength tests and toughness tests, and all the past recipes and formulations that I’ve done. Upload all of that to the Citrine platform, and then using the machine learning from the Citrine platform. I can use it to help me figure out what my next experiment should be so that I get closer to my goal. Essentially, after a couple of experimental iterations, I find my new formulation or my new recipe for a plastic that continues to be strong and tough but doesn’t have those banned substances, and I get there faster. Sometimes projects like these can take a couple of years, say like five years to find a new formulation, and with the Citrine platform, I can cut that down to like two years, right? So we really are about helping these materials and chemicals companies cut down how long it takes to find that new recipe, that new formulation, so that they can do it faster and be able to make those changes faster so that we have those new products without, for example, these banned flame retardants in the market.

Christa: Excellent. That helps me a lot. Thank you.

Traci: It’s really quite interesting because right now I think anytime somebody thinks, oh, we’re using these large models, AI of any sort, LLMs, whatever it might be, to help us do this work, and we think it’s instantaneous. And so for you to say it takes us from five years to two years versus and in my head, I’m like, oh, this is an afternoon’s worth of work. No. So given that, like, what does a day’s work look like?

Florencia: For me as a product manager that works on building this platform, right, for the materials engineers to use. So, these days, I lead our product teams, so I’m really focusing more on setting the product strategy and vision and aligning it with our business goals and objectives, and really overseeing that we essentially that we are making sure that we’re building what matters for our customers, right? So I mentioned our customers are these big materials, chemicals companies who have these materials engineers that are working on these, tough materials problems. My goal is really making sure that we are delivering the best products and features and tools that these folks need in order to realize that truth of cutting these big project scopes that may take multiple years into a lot less and helping them be faster and more efficient in their day to day. For me, this means that a lot of my day to day is working with other groups in my organization from marketing and sales, customer success, and our customers as well, and just making sure that we are all internally, within my organization, that we’re all aligned and working in unison towards the same goal. So I also spend a lot of my time with my team or product managers, going through their user flows, hearing their brilliant ideas, talking through customer research and user interviews and user research that we may have done, which is always a lot of fun. That’s really where we focus most of our time, just making sure that we are defining the right problems and finding the right problems to work on.

Traci: It’s such an iterative closely drawn creative process, right? And then you have to fit it into your workflow. I just I find it all very, really fascinating, all these interplays between the different teams.

Christa: Yeah, I love the intersection. Is it customized for each manufacturer or each company materials company?

Florencia: That’s a great question. No. Our product is specifically, where software as a service, and it is a general product that you’re really, that these companies are buying and can apply to their specific material, their specific projects, their specific scope. So it’s a lot of fun to really, you know, from a product perspective, be able to see the generalizability across all of those, be able to understand what has the biggest impact, the most value.

Christa: So what’s the most significant challenge you faced in your work? And how did you overcome it?

Florencia: Two very different challenges at work. I would say, in these past couple of years with COVID and everything, we had layoffs, and that was definitely one of the hardest decisions I’ve had to make. And I’m sure a lot of people in tech can relate to that. But I want to talk about a different challenge that maybe is a little bit more unique. When I joined the company, we did not have a product yet. We had a proof of concept that we showed had the right technology, and we were hitting the right business hypothesis to make this company great. But we functioned more like a services company. So we were helping really kind of building out the necessary things and helping more specifically working on specific projects with kind of this tool that we had. Making the transition from a services focused company to a product company where it is one product that is generalizable across multiple customers. That was one of the biggest challenges I have faced because there’s definitely so many directions you can go in, right? And how do you find the right direction to go in? Of course, you define goals and you make sure that you’re working towards those goals. There’s just a lot that goes on with this change from internal behavior to positioning and pricing and so on. The change management, it requires internally is significant. What else? I just it’s both very challenging and also very fun, in a sense, because we were a much smaller company back then, is that you have such an open array of possibilities, and you really have to make decisions and go in one direction and test what’s working and what’s not. At the same time, being a small company, you’re wearing a lot of hats, right, wearing a lot of hats, trying to do many things at once. There’s a lot really that you’re working on and trying to figure out and it’s challenging, but it’s very rewarding, I guess is what I’m trying to say here.

Christa: Excellent. Thank you for sharing that.

Traci: You touched on this just a little bit before with your example about removing the fire retardants from a particular plastic. But we always like to ask our guests, how is what you’re doing contributing to this more sustainable idea that we have these goals, that we’re trying to make this a healthier planet? Can you walk us through that?

Florencia: Yeah. We help our customers realize more sustainable products faster, right? We talked a little bit about that. And what has always drawn me, so I have a material science background, and what has always drawn me to material science and the chemicals world is that everything made of materials, right? From fabrics to batteries to biomedical implants to the table that I have in front of me here. So this industry is a huge industry, a trillion dollar market. And we are helping a lot of these companies, as I mentioned, really be able to make those changes. So for example, we’ve helped a consumer packaged goods company remove PFAS, so like forever chemicals from their consumer products, these chemicals that are known to cause multiple problems within our bodies. We were able to remove those products from a couple of consumer goods consumer products that are actually out in the market. We’ve helped personal health companies reformulate some of their flagship products with more bio based materials to be more sustainable, so more sustainable ingredients, essentially, removing some of those ingredients, again, just like my example. That’s how our company really helps see that future and working with those companies to realize those changes, remove those harmful chemicals and get there faster. And what’s amazing is, both fun and part of the material science world is that you can do that across so many different areas, right? I mentioned a couple chemicals there, but again, everything is made of materials. So there’s a lot of potential and a lot more that we definitely need to do from a sustainability perspective.

Traci: You are an expert at this. You’ve been at it for a long time. You neck deep, right, in the details. But we’ve asked you to think about what’s it like to be a sophomore. Trying to decide on a major, or anything else that you think a sophomore might need to know. So we kind of use that as a benchmark here, so time for the wayback machine. What advice?

Florencia: Got to go back and think about this. I’d say two things. You know, one of the most impactful things that I did, and I wish I did more of these, is internships. Knowing what work life is like early to help me back then, be able to understand both just internalize more the value of what I’m learning in each class and selecting my different classes. So doing more of that. So I do recommend definitely an internship at a company that you might think that you might be interested in in the future. It’s a great way to find what you’d like and what you don’t like. And I would also say for me personally, because I did go into the software development world, I would have liked to have taken more computer science and computation classes, and even more statistics classes, I think today they have data science classes as well. I don’t know if they called them that back in my day. But that is another area, just because I did go into software development under my belt.

Traci: Those that absolutely makes sense to me. I think I have the same tally sheet of things I should have done.

Christa: That’s fair. So what would you say, what classes or class had the greatest impact in preparing you for your career?

Florencia: Yeah, so I took an applied materials class. I can’t remember exactly what it was called at the time, a materials design class. And just really being able to see the application and how you really go through that whole process was very valuable. I focused a little bit more on polymers in part of my career and journey. So I would have, we work we work with a lot of chemical companies as well, and I’m definitely glad that I had some of those polymer classes, maybe would have taken a couple more. So yeah, I’ll also say, I took the wines course and loved that. So you also have to take some of those classes that are applicable not only to your career, but to your everyday life.

Traci: I think that that is great advice. I think too many people forget to take the fun classes too. Even though people tell me wines is really hard.

Florencia: Yes. I remember that.

Traci: So where do you go to keep current on what’s happening in your field right now?

Florencia: Yeah, so my field is kind of an intersection of multiple different things from data science and the latest machine learning and AI technology, and also the materials and chemicals world, in addition to consumer packaged goods and other markets as well. So there’s a lot to kind of keep track of. And I wouldn’t say that I go to one specific area. But, you know, I keep up in kind of both those realms, especially the AI and ML. Keep up with all of the you know, for example, everyone’s probably familiar with this, all of the new advancements in GPT and all the LLMs and all of those, like foundational model enhancements and everything that’s coming out in that space, because that’s critical to our product. And we’re always looking to how we can really expand and be at the leading edge of materials informatics or our space, of Citrine, our company. So we’re always looking at new things to see, okay, will this make an impact in our product? Will it make our core technology better? We have these problems that we want to solve for our customer, can these tools help? I don’t know if I’m answering your question to be honest, around, is there a specific place that I go? I really try to look, I’ll mention, I do use Google alerts to help me look into, you know, these specific areas. So I do get kind of a synopsis of what has been coming out in the past week.

Christa: I like that, too, and that’s a good maybe message for people who aren’t sure where to go. If you don’t know where else to go, where to begin, and you can’t find it, add an alert and see what comes to you. Add several alerts. I like that. You know? Who knows? Like there’s so many advancements coming your way that, yeah, who knows what’s going to be the next thing that’s going to be useful to you? That’s fascinating. You really are on the cutting edge. Love it. Okay, so if you are not doing this work right now, what might you be doing?

Florencia: Yeah. So I love the outdoors. I also just had a baby. So I would say that my days these days are filled, mostly, when I’m not working, trying to go on hikes and definitely getting outside into the trees. My husband and I also have a camper van. We get into the outdoors, camping, exploring, just even the local flora and fun of California. I am a new mother, but I’m hoping to get back into some sports that I really enjoy, like mountain biking, windsurfing, skiing. Really, if you could sum it up, it’s really just being outside in a sense.

Traci: Love that so much. California is a great spot to do that. Lots of great choices overall. We usually ask at the end, what do you do to relax or recharge, but I think you already told us. And that’s really, really quite wonderful. And, you know, being outside, just hits that reset button for most of us.

Florencia: It really does.

Traci: Thank you so much for joining us today. It’s a spot The work that you’re doing is a spot that I have been completely blind to. I mean, I certainly know about material science and CHEME and CS, but this intersection is such an interesting place to be. And so thank you for helping us kind of wade through that a little bit with you.

Florencia: Yeah, yeah. Thank you for having me.

Christa: Good. I appreciate that a lot, it definitely, this conversation definitely helps to demystify some things for me. Thank you.

Florencia: Good, good. If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Delivering Insights on the Energy Industry and Climate Impact: Kasim Khan ‘20

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Christa: We’re here today with Kasim Khan. Kasim is a research analyst at Wood Mackenzie, a global provider of data and analytic solutions for the renewable energy and natural resources industries. After graduating from Cornell Engineering in 2020, he began work at Woodmac, Supply Chain, doing consulting for utility, working to optimize supply chain operations across North America. His experience eventually led him to join the research team, where he now focuses on advising clients on energy storage technologies and operations. Welcome, Kasim. It’s great to see it today.

Kasim Khan: Yeah, good to see you.

Christa: Thank you. So I’m excited to share your story with our listeners. And I’m hoping you can start by telling us a little bit about what you do in your current work, and then go into what does that look like on the, you know, day to day basis?

Kasim: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, currently I work as a research analyst for an energy economics and consulting firm called Wood Mackenzie or Woodmac, for short. And, essentially what we do. You know, I think I kind of view us as being, like a information aggregator, you know, both of quantitative and qualitative information, and we use that to develop our own research reports, pricing forecasts, other types of forecasts and really, like a independent third party expertise that we use to advise pretty much anyone in the energy industry about challenges, opportunities. I mean, this can be like advising renewable developers who are actually building battery storage projects, but it can also be like advising say, you know, like the Nigerian government on their oil and gas policy or something like that. Like, we work with a variety of players across the globe, and it’s just very exciting to be in such a position where I can provide that, that sort of expert advice to different people. But yeah, so in terms of what that looks like on more of the day to day, I think a big part of my job is definitely speaking with people in the industry, so getting their perspective, hearing their thoughts, and then synthesizing all these different perspectives from different stakeholders into your own perspective on the market and then use that to develop thought leadership pieces. I’d say, yes, besides actually speaking to people and hopping on calls, a big part of it is working in Excel, PowerPoint typical tools I think a lot of analysts use, no matter which industry or which company you’re working in. But I mean, certainly, those are, you know, some places where I spent a lot of my time to day to day working on, like, specific pricing models or developing reports for a pricing forecast. I’m talking price right now because I’ve been working on that this week, and that should be coming out in a few weeks.

Christa: Yes. So if someone wants to get into this type of work, what might they consider doing as an undergraduate?

Kasim: Yeah, I mean, for this type of, like, market research role, I think you can really come from pretty much any background to be honest. I mean, the nice thing about this type of work is that though the organizations you work in and the people you work with come from a variety of backgrounds because it’s really important to have that diverse perspective. So like myself, I used to be engineering, a lot of my colleagues also did engineering, of all types, you know, chemical, I was myself, and then I have other colleagues who did electrical, et cetera, but also people studying or who studied OR, people who had more of a policy background or maybe studied like pure mathematics, that sort of thing. Yeah, so really, I think, as long as there’s, like, a demonstrated interest in the energy industry, and, you know, I think, as long as you also show potential for skills, like, skills that would be good in any job, you know, communication, teamwork, leadership, all those things are super important.

Christa: What’s one of the greatest challenges you’ve faced in your career?

Kasim: Yeah, good question. I think I would probably say the greatest challenge was this one specific project that I was on, not in my current role, but still at Woodmac, in my previous role in supply chain consulting. To give a little bit of context there, in supply chain consulting, we work mostly with utilities on specific project engagement, so like helping them renegotiate contracts, for example. Yeah, without going into too much detail, I’ll say that I was maybe a couple of years into my career, and I was in charge of leading these negotiations with a few contracts that this one utility had with a slew of private equity firms. And these are people who obviously know their stuff. And that meant I really had to know my stuff. And it’s not just that, right? It’s not just giving a simple presentation, but it’s actually, like, developing an argument. Actually sitting on a call and talking to these people and telling them information that they really don’t want to hear, and they really don’t like hearing. So, I mean, that was a huge challenge for me, right, especially, you know, coming from an engineering background where like, maybe some of those, like, more nuanced, you know, like organizational behavior, challenging questions, isn’t it really something I dealt with a lot. But it’s definitely an opportunity that I took to grow. I mean, I think I really overcame that by just like being as prepared as I could. So obviously developing my negotiation points, but then also, like, asking my colleagues for feedback, you know, holding, like mock calls before we actually did the real thing, as well as just like recording myself, hearing you know, hearing what I say correctly, what I say incorrectly, and better ways to phrase things. And, yeah, I mean, you know, I think it was definitely tough for the first couple of times, but I quickly became comfortable with it. And I think it really made me grow as a person. And I feel like after going through that, I feel like I can talk to pretty much anyone right now.

Christa: Yes, thank you for sharing that. This is something that we all go through at some point in our lives and our careers. And I appreciate that students can hear that story that they’re not the only ones who are struggling with this. Yeah. Thank you.

Kasim: Yeah. And I might also add just really quick, I feel like I think about this a lot, you know, because I feel like we hear a lot of these success stories of, like, really exceptional people who do amazing things in their 20s, right? And I’m sure a lot of a lot of highly motivated students at Cornell, elsewhere. You know, I mean, I myself was one of those definitely, we all want to shoot for the moon, right? And so with that is, like, you’re probably going to be in rooms where you’re going to be the youngest person there. So I think there is definitely always going to be some of that imposture syndrome. But I think maybe folks could turn that around and say, well, that actually means that I don’t know, you’re doing the right stuff.

Christa: Yes. That’s exactly right. I like that. I appreciate that perspective. So what inspired you to get into this line of work, and what is the impact you’re hoping to make?

Kasim: Yeah, for sure. So what inspired me? I mean, pretty much as long as I can remember have been interested in climate, energy. I mean, you know, since I was a kid. Just reading about the issue of global warming and climate change was something that always, like, really stuck out to me as being this huge problem that we may or may not end up solving. I think at this point, I can probably say that we’ve made quite a bit of progress. So I’m actually, I’m sure some people might feel differently, but personally, I actually don’t feel too bad or as bad about the situation as I did, maybe ten years ago. But, I mean, yeah, that’s kind of been the main driver. So, like, that led me to studying back in high school, you know, for the science fair. I was looking at different types of battery technologies and battery research that were going on. I mean, this is kind of this is like 2013, 2014, when Tesla was beginning to getting some press coverage, still, you know, very early stage, like there weren’t Teslas on the road in every other corner, like you see nowadays. But yes, that kind of prompted me to get into the battery EV battery storage space. And then when I was looking at colleges, it seemed like Cornell had a really great program for engineering, but also for the liberal arts, so I can get some more exposure to concepts beyond just the pure technology of things. So, that’s really what I think drove me from like a background in chemical engineering, energy research at Cornell to something where I’d be able to also get a broader perspective of the actual industry, you know, beyond academia. So I mean, myself, you know, my senior year, I was kind of like really thinking between should I continue with the research and maybe do a PhD and really contribute to like the cutting edge of what’s possible, with battery chemistry, or should I take this consulting offer that I had with Woodmac and actually figure out what are some of the other non technical challenges happening right now? So that’s what I did. And I feel like I’ve learned a lot I’ve met some really amazing people. Yeah, ultimately, it just kind of led me to, you know, returning from the consulting work to something more research and more battery based, but not in the academic sense, in the market research sense.

Christa: What ways do you anticipate AI impacting your work or this industry in general?

Kasim: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Of course, AI is the thing everyone’s talking about right now. Yeah, I mean, as a matter of fact, it’s something that has been getting a lot of buzz, I think, in the energy community in the past past month, past couple of months here, as these different utilities, or grid operators across the country put out their forecasts for what they think their demand, like what they think their peak demand is going to look like ten, 20, 30 years from now, that number is really, really increasing year over year, and that’s primarily due to data center growth, and the acceleration of that due to this boom we’re seeing artificial intelligence. So you know, certainly from that perspective, it’s like a lot of clients are asking us questions about how our data center is planning to meet that load growth. You know, obviously, these companies want to get to 100% renewable carbon free power. So some of that is definitely going to be delivered through storage, which is, you know, the research that I work on, specifically. But then, it’s also going to be met by other things in the landscape. So I think a flip side to that is AI is also helping helping us accomplish the energy transition. Like, I think one area of technology that’s really exciting right now are these things called virtual power plants. Now, I mean, these are things that I’ve been hearing about for quite a while now, but I think they’re starting to get a pretty serious amount of attention these days and quite a bit of press. And so essentially, AI is really helpful here because it’s really key in building these algorithms that can take you know, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands plus of things like smart meters, electric vehicles, heat pumps that are scattered all across the region and figure out like the optimal dispatch strategies for each of those devices. And if you aggregate all of that, you can treat it as like a power plant that’s the new virtual power plant. That’s been really helpful because it’s a really cost effective way for utilities to meet that demand growth without actually building, like a brand new solar plant or a brand new battery plant. So it’s like both sides. You know, AI is causing this huge demand growth, but then we can also help meet it with AI as well.

Christa: Yeah, so there are people with a variety of skill sets and interests who can get involved here. Students who are interested in data analytics, students who are interested in AI development, certainly, those who are civil engineers, chemical engineers, I mean, right, there’s so many different angles where people can get involved in the work that you’re doing. I’m curious to hear about the different types of people and companies and organizations that you are collaborating with on a regular basis.

Kasim: Yeah, different types of people, organizations, and companies. Well, that’s the exciting thing about the job, I think is we get to work with a huge diverse set of players. So in terms of the people, I think pretty much anyone who’s working in the energy space we interact with. So I mean, this can be very broad. I mean, these can be, you know, like policymakers, you know, people with insight into what policy is happening in Washington. That’s super helpful for us right now, because, for those of you who don’t know, the one huge huge boon for renewable energy in the past couple of years has been the Inflation Reduction Act passed in 2022, and there’s still a lot of uncertainty as to how some of those benefits are going to translate. So, yeah, we speak to people who are in tune with that policy side, speak to people on the technology side. So like, what, you know, like engineers, like people actually doing engineering at different battery companies. They’re super big to talk to on the sales side, business development, hearing what market opportunities different different players have and challenges they’re facing. Yeah, and I kind of alluded this earlier, but in terms of, like, organizations, these can be governments, these can be banks, financial institutions, who are lending money to renewable energy projects. These can be actual developers, so people who are actually building the project, they can be OEMs, original equipment manufacturers that are actually building the tech that is getting deployed here, and, yeah, it could be think tanks, non profits, as well, et cetera, et cetera.

Christa: What do you wish you knew when you were a sophomore?

Kasim: What I wish I had known as a sophomore is, I think, really being able to appreciate the networking opportunities I had in undergrad. And I honestly don’t think I really understood the meaning of networking until, like, shortly before I graduated or maybe even after I graduated. So yeah, for those sophomores or freshmen who might be listening to the podcast, I don’t mean networking opportunities as in, like, attending networking events and schmoozing with people. Although that’s part of it. I’m not going to say don’t do that, but I think a lot of it really just comes from, like, being aware that you’re in this awesome place surrounded by, like by people. I mean, you all had to apply and get in and get accepted. So it’s just like an extraordinary environment to learn from so many different types of people who will all go on to do great things. And, you know, like, both from a professional and social perspective, I think it’s super important to just, like, pass on, you know, like, make as many connections as you can, join clubs. Yeah, just, like, really stay in touch with people. You know, I mean, I’m not going to say it’s like, impossible after college, but it definitely gets a little harder. I mean, I’m thankful that in the consulting role I had, I was able to meet a lot of people, you know, kind of my age with similar interests. But you’re not going to find that everywhere. So yeah, definitely seize that opportunity, while you have it.

Christa: So along those lines, what classes had the greatest impact in preparing you for your career?

Kasim: I mean, there are a few I could pick from. I think what’s probably been most helpful was my experience in the intro, not intro to CHEME class, but it was CHEME 2190, ENGRD 2190. This is the class that all sophomore CHEMEs take before they, you know, actually get into the major. I had a great professor. I hope he still teaches this course. I’m actually not sure, but Professor Duncan. He, I think, taught me a lot about, like, how to think about problems creatively, as well as how to do creative research and present information in new ways. That makes it intuitive for the reader to understand what you’re saying. I mean, that’s super helpful in the work that I do because I’m always trying to think of ways we can use data to tell stories, and a lot of our clients come to us with questions. Sometimes it can be really hard to answer that if you don’t have a structured way of thinking about it. So yeah, just like those ways of problem solving and thinking about how to analyze and present data has been has been super helpful.

Christa: What do you do to relax and re energize and have fun?

Kasim: Well, I think music’s my biggest thing. I love, love, love to play music and listen to music as well, of course. So I’ve been doing French Horn for a long time. Yeah, you know, middle school, high school, then I was in the symphony orchestra in college. And and Boston’s great, so I’m based in Boston. And it’s a great place for finding community groups to play in. I’m actually playing in a concert in about a week. So that’s pretty exciting. Definitely a great way to, you know, meet people and just kind of a, take my mind off work. And then also play some guitar on the side as well and jam with some friends in the city. And then, yeah, beyond that, you know, I like playing tennis, you know, board games with friends and all that. Fun stuff.

Christa: Is there any place you want people to follow you to see where you’re playing?

Kasim: Oh, to see me playing. I don’t know about that, but if you want to if you want to follow me in my socials, I’m happy to say, you can find me @kawesomekhan on Twitter. K Awesome Khan.

Christa: Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. So speaking of social, where do you go to stay current on information for your field of work?

Kasim: I think Twitter X is actually kind of underrated, still. Like, I mean, yeah, like ignoring all the drama that’s kind of happened in the past, like, a year and a half, but still it’s like, interesting, you know? Like, you’d think after everyone sort of, I mean, not boycotting, but kind of wanting to leave the platform after Elon Musk bought it. It’s like you’d think there would be something else that people are on now, but really not really. Like, I’ve spoken with people who are like thought leaders in the industry as well, and they’ve kind of told me that LinkedIn, Twitter is pretty much the place to be. And I like it a lot because I mean, if you keep it to a professional level, I think it could be quite informative. It’s just a great way to hear directly from smart people. I mean, like, you’ll have a lot of professors doing really insightful research, and you can tweet them and asked them questions, or see, like, back and forth discourse between different academics or different people who work in industry. It’s like a really great way to see, like what is trending right now in energy.

Christa: So if you were not doing this work right now, what might you be doing?

Kasim: Yeah, if I was not doing this. I mean, is this kind of like a dream job question?

Christa: Maybe. Maybe. Whatever you want it to be?

Kasim: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. I do love music a lot. I feel like if I, yeah, you know, if like, money were no object, I suppose. I probably would be doing that in some sense. You know, I mean, it would probably be more on the rock or pop side or indie side than classical or French Horn. I mean, I love the French Horn, but I just I just don’t think I could do classical music for the rest of my life.

Christa: Who knows? Who knows? Maybe some thing will come out of that. Fantastic. Is there anything else you’d like to share with our audience?

Kasim: I mean, I guess there are a few things. I think I mentioned this, I mentioned this in the beginning. But in terms of the progress we’re making on the energy transition, I think it’s actually been pretty significant the past few years. Let’s see, like, I mean, in 2018, policies had us on track for about 3.1 to 3.7 degrees Celsius of warming by 2100, and that’s above pre industrial levels. And now that’s down to 2.5 to 2.9. So, I mean, within six years or something, that’s gone down a pretty significant amount. And so I think some of those success stories, you know, don’t get talked about as much. I think it’s important to recognize that a ton of progress has been made. I mean, granted, you know, those are still just projections, so we need people to actually make those a reality. And obviously 2.5 to 2.9 is still very bad. You know, anything anything above zero, I mean, really is not good. But yeah, so it’s like we made good progress, but yeah, we’ve got to keep fighting the good fight. And then, you know, I guess, the other thing from like a more career advice perspective, I would really encourage, like, reaching out to alumni and people who work in the industry because as an undergrad, like, I really didn’t know about the opportunities to get involved in renewable energy. Like, these weren’t really companies that came up in class discussions. So I think without doing the right outreach, you’re not really going to know what’s out there. And then maybe a third thing is something that I wish I had maybe done a little bit more is just, like, kind of trust my instinct and not like overthink things too much, because I don’t know, kind of, like, what I’ve found personally is, like, my instinctual decisions have usually been right. Like, you don’t need a reason for everything. I feel like a lot of a lot of engineers want to know why like they’re doing every single thing. I mean, just like natural curiosity, right. But I think to some degree, you don’t need to know why, you can just do things because you want to do it.

Christa: I like that. Good. I appreciate your positive outlook towards the future. It gives me hope because, yeah, I was seeing it less hopeful than you’re portraying it. So I appreciate that.

Kasim: It definitely comes and goes. Depending on the latest headlines, yeah.

Christa: Awesome. I’ve greatly appreciated learning more about the work that you’re doing, and again, your insight into where we’re headed. So thank you so much for chatting, and we will talk again soon.

Kasim: Yeah, thanks. It was a pleasure chatting.

Christa: Thank you for listening. If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Driving Innovation in Automotive and Mobility Safety: Haley Antoine Grantham ‘19

Christa Downey: Welcome to the Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you. Today in Engineering Career Conversations, we’re spending some time with Haley Antoine Grantham. She’s a Safety and Crashworthiness Engineer at Toyota Motor North America Research and Development. We welcome Haley, and we had such an enjoyable time speaking to her about the many interesting aspects about her job. So stay tuned. Haley, thank you so much for being with us here today. We’re so excited to hear everything you’ve been up to because it’s quite a lot, and I’m really particularly interested in these topics. So we’re going to let you give us your context. Tell us about your current work. What are you up to?

Haley Antonie Grantham: Yeah, absolutely. So I am a Safety and Crashworthiness Engineer at Toyota Motor North America, Research and Development or TMNA R&D for short. I’m based out of the Ann Arbor Michigan area. It’s about 30 minutes away from Detroit. And so for the first I guess, four years or so of my career, I was a Pedestrian Protection Engineer. So what does that even mean? Most people when they think about crash safety, they’re typically thinking about, you know, being the occupant of a vehicle. So inside the vehicle, when you’re sitting in the front or the back seat, however, at Toyota, we care about the safety of those that are also outside of our vehicles. So in my role, our ultimate goal is to reduce the likelihood of head and leg injuries to pedestrians, and also bicyclists, can’t forget them. And In order to do this, I use computer modeling tools to predict these injuries throughout vehicle development. And we collaborate with lots of designers and other engineers to implement design changes. And then eventually later in development, we’ll actually do physical testing, and we’re literally launching these instrumented, almost like severed dummy heads and legs at our vehicles, which is pretty crazy and pretty exciting to see. But about six months ago, I actually moved into a new function within crash safety. It’s the advanced body structure and computer aided engineering group. Which is quite a mouthful, but we really do have similar goals to the pedestrian safety team and that we want to reduce the likelihood of injuries, but this time for the occupants of the vehicle. So we’re trying to manage the energy of the vehicle crash through different designs and being really strategic with the way that we create our vehicle upper and underbody. But outside of all of that engineering work, I stay pretty busy in a lot of other activities at Toyota. I’m actually the R&D co-op coordinator. So I lead R&Ds recruitment, engagement, and conversion efforts. And I have a big team of a bunch of really awesome people, managers and engineers alike that support our specific functions within R&D. And I’m also part of our employee resource group, or we call them business partnering groups called Women Influencing and Impacting Toyota or WIIT, for short, as a steering committee leader.

Traci: That’s a lot.

Haley: Yeah. Yep, I like to stay busy. Absolutely. Maybe Cornell taught me how to do that.

Traci: So I have a I have a follow up question. So you’re absolutely right. Most people think about the crash worthiness as being a passenger or driver. And that you’re working about this outside of the vehicle itself, right? You’re tangential, if you will, to the vehicle itself, but it’s so important. I didn’t realize that this was part of crash testing before. How did you get into that subset of expertise? It’s really interesting.

Haley: Yeah, absolutely. You probably haven’t heard of it, because actually in the United States, it’s not a regulation yet. So um, kind of my group is doing this advanced safety work because it is supposed to be coming into effect in the US, in the near future, actually, the government agency that regulates, you know, crash safety standards, they had just released kind of their new “teaser” for the regulation protocol. So we expect it to come soon. But in other parts of the world, Europe, China, Japan, Australia, there are lots of regulations and ratings related to pedestrian. But in the way that I found it, I guess, is just sort of by chance, I did two co-op rotations in crash safety at Toyota, and the second one was actually in this pedestrian protection group. The first one was in a side crash group, so that was more of the occupant protection. And then after I got exposed to that and my second co-op, I decided, gosh, maybe this is a career for me. So it was truly by chance, it wasn’t, definitely wasn’t something I planned on doing.

Christa: Haley, as a pedestrian and a cyclist, I’m grateful for this work. And I’m thrilled, I’m excited to share with my cycling friends the news about the future of this work. So I greatly appreciate that, as well. Tell us more, what’s the day-to-day for you?

Haley: Yeah, absolutely. Day to day is pretty different. So during traditional vehicle development, for example, the ninth generation Camry, which we just launched earlier this year, or maybe the new Tacoma, which we launched late last year, both of which I supported. You can kind of think of those as traditional vehicle developments. So we go through lots of feedback design cycles throughout maybe 2.5 to three year development time frame. And as an evaluation engineer, I take the designs that our design engineers develop, and then really put them to the test. Whether this is using finite element analysis, simulations, hand calculations or physical testing, I evaluate those designs either virtually or with actual parts and then feedback to the designers about maybe what’s going well or maybe something that I’d like to potentially change or improve for a particular performance I’m responsible for, so that head injury or maybe that leg injury. But I can’t just be the only person informing that design because so many other engineers and performances, other than crash safety depend on the design of a part, for example, like our aerodynamics team, our handling team, our engine cooling team, strength, durability, there’s so many different performances that go into a vehicle. And so we all have to come together, come to a consensus if we’re all kind of maybe conflicting about a part change, for example. Feedback to the designer on what we agree upon. And then the designer then has to do more confirmation. So they have to check with other groups outside of just R&D, like our manufacturing or production teams, and then even our styling groups, which are kind of like the artists of vehicle development. And so all that to say, really is a lot of communication and collaboration, right? So, whether that’s within crash safety or with other groups, we just spend a lot of time during development, collaborating, working with different engineering teams, and we’re really trying to ensure that we find the best possible solution to meet our performance targets. Then that’s kind of the traditional vehicle development, right? But Toyota is actually transitioning from an automobile company to a mobility company, as we’re calling it. So it’s really focusing on how we move people, goods, and information, not just this classic car and truck company. What does that really mean? But I mean, mobility really means for Toyota. It’s about current and future research, technology, products, and services that make us competitive beyond automobiles. Hardware and software platforms that make life safer, provide more flexible and on demand solutions and anticipate changes of the time. So with that, I know that all sounds kind of broad and maybe, you know, not necessarily related to vehicles, which is what we’re all very used to seeing coming out of Toyota. It’s actually enabled us to work on some really cool projects. And I’ve worked on some projects in areas that completely unrelated to my core job in crash safety, like projects and accessories for off roading, which is a kind of, I guess, hobby that I had never been exposed to growing up in Southern California, and, you know, going to school in Ithaca. And then another project that will eventually be customer facing on our Toyota website, and then our Toyota and Lexus apps, which has been really cool. And I truly have no background in computer science, and I’m definitely not doing the hard coding for it, but I’m actually managing this project, kind of coming up with the concept behind it. So it’s a really exciting time to be in automotive, you know, not just in Toyota, but automotive as a whole is really going through this shift. So really no day is quite the same, and there’s lots of fun things going on.

Traci: I love your emphasis here with collaboration and communication and trying on all these new things, what you’re describing, working with your CS folks, with the apps and the web page and all. You’re going to be the perfect user tester, right? All of that and a different kind of accessibility, maybe than what you’re used to dealing with, with the vehicle design. Yeah, really fascinating work. I think that seques nicely into because Toyota is going through all of these shifts and retooling, what they’re all about. They’re answering the call to these bigger ideas that are floating in and around the world. We always ask our people that we’re interviewing, how does your work contribute to a healthier, more equitable, sustainable world? Definitely, we’ve got safety here. That’s lovely. So take us through your thoughts.

Haley: Toyota is really committed, and we see this in internal company messaging or just the projects that we all get to work on, and even, you can probably see it as a customer, in maybe commercials or whatever it is. But Toyota is really committed to contributing to the practical and sustainable development of society. We’re taking a really transparent and science-based approach to address climate change across every part of our company. So it’s not just our operations of our products, we’ll grow in harmony with the environment. Our commitment to vehicle electrification, I know that’s probably one of the big things that folks think of when they’re thinking about environmental, you know, causes within the automotive industry, you know, our commitment to that is just really one important element of our efforts to build the world a zero carbon future. We’re also challenging our suppliers and our dealers to minimize CO2 emissions and pushing towards carbon neutrality in our operations by 2035. So that’s coming up real quick, but we’re doing so much work to really charge forward in this mission. And in terms of, you know, in the crash safety world, kind of bringing it back to the things that I’m working on, my team is truly doing a lot of the work to develop our electric vehicles. So you can imagine a lot of things about the vehicle design are going to change when there’s a giant super heavy battery involved. And if you really think back to maybe even high school physics, force equals mass times acceleration, a heavier vehicle means more force and more energy to manage in a crash scenario. And so we really have to think differently about how we manage that energy and not only managing the energy, but we have to protect the battery itself in a crash event. Maybe you’ve seen different things on the news about what happens to batteries, maybe when they’re submerged in water, or in crashes and things like that. We definitely don’t want that happening to any of our customers. So those are all important things that we have to consider within the Crash Safety team.

Christa: Thank you. So, what people and organizations are important collaborators toward this brighter future?

Haley: Yeah, absolutely. I think in the battery space, we’re working with LG Energy Solutions, which is a really exciting collaboration. So they’ll actually be supplying our automotive battery modules to be used in our battery electric vehicles that are assembled in the US starting next year in 2025. And then again, you know, our suppliers and our dealers, we’re really challenging them to minimize CO2 emissions. So I think maybe some people forget that Toyota or any other automotive company, we don’t make every single part ourselves, right? We work with all these other smaller companies that create the seats or the steering wheels or the infotainment systems, and there’s, you know, hundreds and hundreds of suppliers that we work with to put together a vehicle. And so we’re working in leveraging those suppliers and challenging them to really move forward with us in this goal of minimizing CO2 emissions.

Traci: It’s really interesting that you even mentioned seat design, for example, is outsourced. I worked with a fellow in the past who was one of the, he was a designer, an engineering designer for the seats, and I never even thought about that before. But of course. His favorite was for long haul truckers because those seats have the hydraulics that move up and down with big load. It was really interesting work. You made me recall that important little bit.

Christa: Haley, in what ways do you anticipate AI impacting your work or the industry in the future?

Haley: Oh, that’s a good question. I think AI or even machine learning, those are just some popular buzzwords I think we’re all hearing lots about wherever industry you are, but particularly in the automotive of industry, in crash safety or maybe even in the broader evaluation or performance areas, like I mentioned before, strength or aerodynamics, or what have you. We actually see this internally in ways we’re leveraging it to create tools that actually help us make better predictions about the way, maybe a new vehicle or a new platform will perform under certain conditions. So kind of the thinking is that if we can evaluate performances early and virtually based on a previous vehicle’s performance, or maybe, like, screen a design with machine learning, we can improve our designs early, and then we can have a more efficient vehicle design cycle. And it also helps us kind of create a more robust design because we’re maybe picking out challenge points or something like that with these machine learning tools very early, and a lot of our engineers not only work on the performance aspect, but also they’re designing these tools themselves internal to the department. So it’s kind of a cool combination of, you know, if you are a mechanical engineer, for example, you can also flex your computer science or coding skills because you can create these tools that help not only you kind of improve designs or something like that, but those tools can also be applicable for other folks in your department. So we see that a lot definitely. But then in other areas, maybe we’re thinking of the more customer focused or software type, you know, AI applications. That’s definitely coming into play in automotive as well. So developing software that leverages AI to better serve our customers. We’re seeing things like that. Maybe the features that you see in your Toyota or Lexus apps, if anyone is a Toyota or Lexus driver with maybe a newer vehicle. They have some sort of AI or engine behind that, that’s been developed by our software company, Toyota Connected. And these products can help our customers schedule service or even kind of build up their next vehicle to their liking on the Toyota website, which are some cool ways. So there’s lots of AI really coming into play both internally to support vehicle development, and then also just simply in the products as you might maybe normally think of where you would see AI that are more customer facing like interfaces with our customers.

Traci: So many creative ways that the AI is being used, right?

Haley: Absolutely.

Traci: Early and eager adaptation or adoption, too, of all of these systems, and all the cautionary tales, but this seems like really appropriate ways to do early testing, as you were saying. It’s just amazing. There’s so many really great applications. I’m really interested in knowing your take then on, what do you recommend for others who want to go into this field? How do they get to this spot where you are doing so much good work?

Haley: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the automotive industry is rapidly changing, even at the Sears Society of Automotive Engineers Conference, which is held annually in Detroit, all of the branding is mobility and these kinds of wordings. You know, It’s not just an industry where, you know, you had to be as a child working in the garage with your parents and taking apart cars. You know, that’s really not the classic tale anymore of folks who are getting into the automotive or mobility industry. I think it’s a really exciting time to become involved because there are so many types of jobs for folks from all engineering backgrounds, mechanical, electrical, materials, chemical, biomedical, manufacturing engineering. There’s literally a place for you in multiple places actually for you within the automotive industry. And then, of course, there’s so much work outside of engineering. Maybe from like pure science and research, marketing, business, sales, strategy, purchasing, supply chain. There’s so so much within the automotive industry. Literally any educational background can land you in automotive. And so I think that’s a really cool time to be entering into this mobility sector. But really, maybe a little bit more specific to crash safety, the most common education is a four year degree in mechanical or biomedical engineering. Some companies prefer or require masters, but not at Toyota. But while in school, I’d really recommend getting involved in undergraduate research or a project team to get experience with project schedules, collecting data, analyzing that data. And really that collaboration with your peers or your research group is also really important experience. But crash safety, you know, I think I mentioned before, it’s a mix of virtual and physical testing. Obviously, the automotive companies don’t expect you to be crashing cars and analyzing that kind of data when you’re an undergrad. But something you can do to kind of give yourself a little bit of experience is at least maybe taking a course in finite element analysis or computer aided design, so either some FVA or CAD classes. But I know that also takes place outside of the classroom in some project teams. So that’s also some sort of little advantage to kind of just getting your toes wet in some of the technical aspects of this work that could be, you know, going on when you’re an undergrad.

Traci: That link to project teams is so important. For everybody who isn’t aware of our calendar, we’re recording this in the middle of May. We are just about to hit project team competition time and all their deadlines were recently in play. Your whole thing about project management of project cycles and keeping to those with your testing. Boy, I don’t think you could ring that one anymore, true. Far as campus experiences. But you’re right, the offices of undergraduate research and all of these project teams certainly feed into all those qualities you were talking about.

Christa: This is all excellent advice. And along these lines, what do you wish you knew when you were a sophomore?

Haley: Hm. That’s a good question. I think I wish I knew that everything would work out the way it’s supposed to. And I know it’s easy to say that, you know, in retrospect. But while you know, maybe if you’re a sophomore or junior, what have you listening, you can say, brush that off and say, hey, you don’t understand, I’m so stressed. I have all these classes, whatever. I was there, too. I get it. But, you know, really, I never even considered the automotive industry for a career, ever. Growing up in San Diego and then going to school in Ithaca, you don’t necessarily consider those two cities hubs of automotive activity. So I just had no exposure. I didn’t have any role models in the automotive industry. I didn’t even know that crash safety existed. But actually, a graduate TA of one of my classes encouraged me to go and talk to some of the companies at the Society of Women Engineers National Conference in 2017. So this was actually my junior year, or going into junior year, I suppose. So I was guess, a little bit late, so to speak, in my undergraduate career, to have an epiphany about what I want to do with my life. But she was at the time, like, the only woman TA that I’d ever had in a mechanical engineering course. So I really looked up to her, and, you know, she really, whether she knows it or not, that encouragement and literally grabbing me by the arm and saying, hey, like, go, go talk to these folks. Did you know that crash safety is a thing? And I said, No, I had no idea, she’s like, well, we’re both going to go learn right now. So we you know, walked up to booths and things like that. I had no idea what crash safety entailed, but, you know, I trusted her and, you know, took that leap of faith and had no idea that it would lead to all of this. But, you know, all that to say, you do end up, I think we’re supposed to. Maybe it’s not the career industry that you imagined early in your college career, but I think any career that you have, when you use your engineering degree is really guaranteed to impact the lives of others. You know, so if you’re a sophomore, a freshman or junior or, you know, senior, even listening, and you don’t quite know what you want to do yet, you know, I think just kind of find peace in the fact that you will get to somewhere where you’re supposed to be eventually. Maybe it’s not your perfect timeline. Maybe it’s not even your first job right at of undergrad. Maybe it’s not with the right company or, you know, something or the preferred company, so to speak. But I think eventually you will land where you are supposed to be.

Traci: Think your point is so great about the power of mentoring there. The vision of her grabbing you by the arm and let’s go talk to people in these booths, what a fabulously empowering moment and fun too. In that moment, she changed your whole life. It’s really important to understand we can be on both sides of that equation at any moment. A grad TA did that for you. That’s fabulous. In that same spirit, we like to ask folks, what class or classes had the greatest impact for you while you were still at Cornell?

Haley: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, the biomedical engineering course work really diverges from the mechanical engineering or the rest of the engineering curriculum, you know, somewhere late sophomore year going into junior year, but really a lot of a lot of crash safety is pretty basic physics, plus some, you know, additional complications or what have you. So a lot of the foundation courses that I think most of us take during our first two years, basic physics, basic maths, and stuff. Those actually, just from a, you know, transferability perspective, those were the most tangible, I would say, I also took some materials engineering classes as a junior and senior. They were obviously very related to biomedical engineering. But I think being in those classes got me thinking about materials, how they affect, you know, the use case of that material or whatever the devices that material is making up. And then the performance of that biomedical device because of the material or something like that, which is really the same thinking way that we use in automotive. You know, is this material proper for this application in the instrument panel? Should we use something else or, you know, different energy absorption properties of different metals is also something we think about a lot, things like that. So, um kind of just some materials classes helped me get into that mindset, I would say. And so, you know, I hate to admit it, but I definitely did not go back to my school notes when I started at Toyota, but I can say that, you know, the courses built up my engineering mindset, and definitely those collaboration skills I talked a lot about. I’d say that communication is probably the number one skill I have to leverage on a daily basis. So I’m definitely, you know, still practicing and trying to improve upon that, but I do think that, you know, that’s a skill that we worked quite a bit on at Cornell and all of our group projects, or presentations or what have you. But then right behind that is probably being curious. I think being curious leads to asking good questions and asking questions leads to dialogue about you know, why a part was designed a certain way or why a certain material was chosen or why the result is the way it is. And then you kind of get into discussions from there. So I think you know, asking questions is super fundamental at Toyota. We encourage it all the time. And it’s part of vehicle development. It’s assumed that in every meeting you go to, there’s going to be a bunch of questions. So asking why just really helps us understand the true reason of, you know, why something is a certain way, not just taking something at face value. And I think I learned to be curious in my classes, especially those major specific junior senior classes, where we really dived into a lot of really, really cool topics. But also, you know, outside the classroom, I just want to touch on that because I think that the activities that I was involved in had almost an equal impact on me, and I really was involved in a lot of activities in undergrad, probably more than I should have. I did research, I was involved in SWE, Society of Women Engineers. I was a resident advisor, and the list goes on and on. But really these activities, I think, honed in those non technical skills, and also passions for, you know, serving others in my community. I think I really carry these experiences with me, even now. I really would just encourage every student to get involved with just something outside of the classroom. You know, it doesn’t have to be a project team. It doesn’t have to be research, but I think even a student group lets you develop those leadership skills and experiences, which is also super super important.

Christa: Indeed, Haley, you are clearly a curious and engaged learner. And excellent role modeling for those listening. So, where you are now in your career, where do you go to stay current for information?

Haley: There’s a lot of different sites dedicated to automotive information. Automotive News, for example, they’re based here in Michigan. They have you know, tons of articles coming out every day, whether it’s automotive “gossip” or actual information coming out. That is a very, you know, common source of information for folks in the auto industry. The Society of Automotive Engineers also has journals, they also have publications, things like that. So they have, you know, lots of presentations at the Society of Automotive Engineers conference that happens every single year. But then you can also, you know, get these passive resources through them, whether it’s journal or different research papers and things like that. So those are also good. But then if we want to get maybe more specific and be current on our actual Toyota customers, we get some information from consumer insights, which is another company that we work within all of really the automotive industry, leverages consumer insights. We launch a vehicle, for example, and then they gather lots of data on, you know, customer first impressions and things like that. And so we can take that customer feedback and whether that’s make an immediate improvement, you know, that might be something. But it’s more like improving the next generation of a vehicle, for example, based on that customer data.

Christa: So, are you still attending SWE conferences?

Haley: Oh, I am. Yes. I’m very fortunate that Toyota has been super supportive of sending lots of folks to SWE conferences. I’ve actually attended every year except COVID since I’ve been hired on, which has been lots of fun. I have actually spoken at SWE conferences since I was in college at Cornell, but I spoke with a group of other young professionals from Toyota at last year’s SWE conference. And then the previous year, my topic was a little bit more related to SWE activities and outreach and stuff, but it’s actually been lots of fun. I get to work the recruiting booth with other folks from all over Toyota North America, and also attend some really great sessions from other women in engineering industries.

Traci: Those conferences are so much fun. When I used to be at a university closer to Detroit, I would go to SAE. Then a lot of my executive ed students, participants there, were doing their presentations, so I’d get to go and watch and watch big. It was great. Yeah. It’s a great conference. Absolutely. SWE too, of course, but yes. We know that one’s awesome, too.

Haley: SWE is awesome. They just keep breaking records every year with attendance. This year, we’ll be in Chicago in the fall, which I think is going to be even bigger since there’s just so many solid engineering schools close to Chicago, so should be a fun one.

Traci: Who. So exciting. Yeah, maybe I’ll try it. Speaking of fun and being in a great city like Chicago, what do you like to do though for fun? It sounds like you’re way too busy to have outside activities, but of course you’re going to fit them in. And what do you do to have fun?

Haley: I think that’s the one thing that I prefer to, working full time than at college. When you working full time, you shut that laptop and you’re done. I know eventually maybe later in my career, maybe that might not be the case, but currently where I’m at, I get to be done on Friday and back Monday. But you know, I do lots of different things, and definitely having an engineering career helps you be able to do fun things outside of work with a, you know, solid salary and all those good things and all the benefits that you have. Definitely a big perk of being able to enjoy your free time. So I guess, I’ve been getting into golfing now that the weather’s warm. I grew up playing. I took a pretty big hiatus after high school, and I was in college. And then my husband, he just started playing as well. So now he’s like, super into it. He’s also an engineer. So you know, he’s always every single day, it’s a new thing. Oh, did you hear about this ball and why it’s, you know, shaped that way? Oh, do you hear how they, you know, design this, you know, golf club, all this stuff. You know, He’s got all the facts and figures and data. So he’s getting into that and really trying to become, you know, maybe we’ll see him on the PGA tour one day. I don’t know. I’m just kidding. But Michigan actually is really big for golf, which I didn’t realize. So we’ve been having a lot of fun, just checking out new courses and stuff and playing when we can. And just exploring, traveling is other, you know, kind of things I like to do. Michigan’s also very fun for, like, small towns and lake shore towns. You know, we’re surrounded by water. We also have so many lakes within the state, not just the big, great lakes. So there’s all these cute little spots around the state that are, pretty easy to drive through just for a weekend or even just a day trip. So that’s been a lot of fun since living here. And then I also, you know, maybe getting into my like, suburban adult life is getting outside in the yard and garden. Lots of adult hobbies, I suppose.

Christa: Adult hobbies. So If you weren’t doing this right now, you know, what might you be doing and is it something that maybe you considered as a child?

Haley: When I was a kid, my first exposure to quote engineering was maybe my first Lego League team. And I did not think that that was very cool. I was like, oh, I don’t know about this whole engineering thing. Is this all they do? They just, you know, I don’t know. I was totally not convinced at my first exposure. Eventually, I met my first biomedical engineer. You know, it’s kind of like meeting a celebrity when I was in high school, and so then that kind of led me to looking into the major and things like that. And then, you know, things went from there. But really, when I was younger, I didn’t I don’t know if I necessarily had decided engineering was for me until later in high school. But I think for a long time, I came from, you know, a family of educators. My mom was a teacher. My grandparents on both sides were teachers and professors, researchers. So I thought for a long time, maybe I’d, you know, be a STEM teacher or something like that. But, you know, maybe that’s what I thought it would be as a child. I don’t know if my memory is too strong, but I think eventually that’s something I’d still like to get back to. It’s still a passion I have kind of, you know, reaching the next generation. I know I’m not going to be the engineer that, you know, solves the greatest problems in crash safety or develops, like the most insane and awesome airbags or whatever. You know, that’s the next generation after me or maybe even the generation after that. The way that, you know, technology evolves at a snail’s pace, I suppose. So I think, you know, man, many, many, many years, after I retire from Toyota, I’d like to go back to teaching somewhere, maybe a community college, maybe a professor of practice, maybe even just, you know, high school or elementary school, whatever it may be, but, you know, maybe that aligns more, you know, with my childhood vision of my career, perhaps.

Christa: Those children would be fortunate to have you. In the meantime, we’re fortunate to have you in the role that you’re in.

Haley: Thanks.

Traci: I just Yeah, I love this whole thing that you have about you recognizing your mentors, right, and those people that were that the rock star bio engineering person at High School. And it’s just it’s so nice to hear it.

Haley: Yeah. I mean, it’s so important. I don’t think that any one mentor is going to be, you know, I mean, maybe my TA, for example, that was kind of a pivotal moment for me, but I think in general, mentors are kind of building upon each other. It’s the sum of all these interactions that you’ve had with other people. Like, you’re the product of all of the effort and time that other people have put in to you, and then you somehow become something later. And so I just think that it’s so important that when you get to that, whatever it may be, you, you know, go back to previous generation or, you know, younger people at your company or even peer mentoring, I think is so so valuable. And I don’t know. It’s just so important. I think we don’t, in college, maybe mentoring is not at top of mind, sometimes, but eventually, when you get into, you know, the real world, it becomes super super critical, I think.

Traci: Thank you so much for sharing all of your thoughts and wisdom and wonderfulness today.

Haley: Absolutely, any time.

Christa: Thank you for listening. If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: Behind the Scenes of Video Game Production: Jessie Yee ‘20

Christa Downey: Welcome to the Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum, where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you. Welcome, everybody to Engineering Career Conversations. We are so happy to be talking today to Jessie Yee, who graduated in 2020, majoring in Information Science and minoring in both film and game design. She is currently a producer at Archetype Entertainment for the Game Play team on Exodus, which is a new triple-A sci-fi action-adventure role playing game. If you want to know more about these projects and others that Jessie’s worked on, click on the link below in the show notes. Let’s get started. Well, Jessie, we’re so glad that you’re here with us today. And just to get a sense of what your work is and what it is that you’re up to, can you let us know about your current work, where you’re at? What does your day look like?

Jessie Yee: Yeah, for sure. So currently, I’m a producer for the gameplay team at my studio. So when I say gameplay, because our game is a triple-A Sci Fi action adventure role playing game, gameplay includes anything that the player has the ability to do, things that our enemies and our companions can do and how the fights are set up with the player, the enemies, and the companions, just as an example. So I get to work with people in disciplines across the company, so everyone from design, engineering, animation, audio, UI, character art, like the list really goes on.

Traci: How do you wrangle so many different people and experts? That seems hard to me.

Jessie: Yeah, I think a big part of the producer role really is, helping to facilitate conversation. So a lot of what I do is, you know, there’s a lot of meetings because I’m working fully remote. There’s a lot of messages that I have to go through, constantly, you know, switching between different types of conversations with different disciplines and different features. So there’s a lot of context switching in my job, but I think part of it is being very well organized, keeping track of, like, who is doing what, who is talking about what and who needs to be included in which conversations. So a lot of the time, you know, I kind of feel like an octopus. You just kind of have to manage a lot of stuff at once. I think part of it comes with just experience on the job. Some of it is just people who go into production, I think have a better tendency or have a tendency to enjoy that type of thing and to be able to keep many things spinning at once.

Traci: And so outline the difference for us between like a producer and like a project lead.

Jessie: Yeah. So I think when you think of the traditional roles like what is a project lead, a project manager, a product manager do versus a producer, the fun answer is that within game development, the term producer can kind of mean anything depending on the team and the specific project that you’re working on. So I tend to think of game producers specifically, which are different from like TV, film, or music producers. I think of game producers as either working generally with the developer or with the publisher. So the publisher producers, they could be doing things like working with platforms. So like Playstation or Xbox, they could be working with marketing teams, with localization. So if you’re going to publish a game in multiple different countries, you’ll have to translate text. You’ll have to maybe arrange things a little bit differently for the suitable audience in that area. But what I think most people will probably think of with game producers is working with the developer, which is what I do. So this is a lot closer to what I think people will think of when they hear the term like project manager, where there is an element of, you know, task tracking, road mapping, communicating with the team, kind of seeing what the status of the work is. But I think the difference is that for producers, you’re kind of more like what I would describe a deliverable lead or at least in most cases. It does still vary a bit studio a studio. But you’re more responsible, at least, like in my past experience for making sure the game gets out the door, so the company can keep the lights on and that you hit, you know, deadlines as you need to, but also really being like a servant leader and a supporter for the team. So, the interesting part about being a producer is that nobody actually reports to me, and I don’t actually manage anybody, but I have a responsibility to my team to help them work in like the healthiest and the most effective way possible.

Traci: Well, I like that you said the word healthiest or the phrase healthiest way possible. What does that mean for you?

Jessie: Yeah, so there is a common term that’s used in game development, which is crunch. So crunch is typically where, you know, you’re getting close to a deadline. People are working overtime. Sometimes it’s a lot of overtime in, you know, the span of a couple of days, sometimes it’s, you know, on the weekends. It depends a lot on the project and the team and how big the company is. There’s a lot of factors that can go into, you know, when and why a crunch happens. But typically when it happens throughout the industry, it’s close to a deadline like releasing of a game or releasing, like, a big expansion for a game. So when I think of healthy game development, a lot of it is, you know, there’s no way to predict the perfect roadmap for how everything is going to lay out, which I think a lot of people can relate to. But particularly with games, it’s harder because games as a product, you know, you can hit all of the beats that you lay out on paper, and you can achieve those goals on paper. But if you play it and it doesn’t feel good or it doesn’t feel fun, you have to keep iterating and you have to keep going. So there’s that component of, you know, like, if I’m sitting in a project manager role, and I say, we have A B and C done just as we had planned. It may not feel fun, and so we may have to keep working on the game if we want it to hit a certain quality bar. So, in general, I think that’s kind of what happens. There’s a lot of reasons that can contribute to a crunch. But my job in trying to help keep the team as healthy as possible is, you know, we can try to foresee as many of those things as possible. We can try to build in time for additional iteration. And just in case it doesn’t feel good, we need to have some more time to work things out. But it is a lot of constant problem solving to make sure that, you know, we’re not signing ourselves up for goals that are too lofty or too unachievable or that we’re not just constantly getting bombarded with feedback because it is a creative industry, and everybody has a lot of opinions.

Traci: Right, right, right. Thank you for that thorough answer. I love it. Love it.

Christa: Jessie, I love hearing all of this, and I’m curious to know how did you get there? I imagine we have many students who would love to learn more about a career, would love to explore a career in video game production. What advice do you have and what was your path?

Jessie: Yeah, that’s a great question. So for me personally, I always knew that I was interested in entertainment media. So I came into Cornell knowing that I wanted to pursue at least a film minor just because that was the main type of media that I was exposed to in an academic setting before college. And I had always loved playing video games, and, you know, you come to the end of a video game, and you’ll watch the credits roll, and sometimes there’s one name, sometimes there’s hundreds of names, similar to a movie. But I never really sat down to think, you know, there’s all these people who have jobs and careers that are working to put this, you know, product into the box that I ended up playing. So when I was at Cornell, you know, I took a bunch of film classes, but I actually had heard from a bunch of my friends who were all CS majors that they were taking this interesting elective that was about game development, which was not something that I think I had even realized was a course until I heard about it from my friends. So I decided to take the class. There’s the intro and the advanced class that I took each of. And in those roles, I was the design lead and the project lead. So I was very focused on doing the design and the art myself. And I didn’t really have a word for what I wanted to do. I didn’t really understand what production was. So in my senior year, as I was trying to figure out, you know, what do I want to do? I knew that I really loved the game development classes, but I actually didn’t want to be a designer or an artist. But I loved working with the team. I loved working with people who were doing those roles other than me, and I knew that I wanted to continue doing that. So I reached out to a lot of Cornell alumni, I think, mostly on LinkedIn, and I just asked them what they did in games and to try to see like what kind of career paths were out there. So I talked to everybody from marketing to narrative writing, to level design, to being more on like the business product development side. So I talked to a lot of different people. And basically, you know, I’d hear from them what they did for a living. A lot of them asked me, you know, what do you enjoy from your game development class that you’re doing? What do you enjoy from other classes that you have or, you know, your part time job when I was working on campus for a bit. And when I was explaining this to them, a lot of them pointed me towards production, just as a discipline and as a career path. So from there, you know, I started to connect with more producers, get a sense of like I mentioned, there’s a lot of different types of production. So just trying to get a sense of what does a producer role look like in a small company like in an indy studio versus a very large company. So what we think of as triple A. This is something like, you know, like Activision Blizzard, for example, is a really big and well known studio. So getting to talk to people from a variety of sources, and from there figuring out, what type of production role do I want to look for? Um, and actually, it was through one of those connections, one of the producers that I met that I found my way to my first role as an associate producer. So I guess my suggestion for anybody who is looking to go into games, especially if they’re not sure what aspect they want to go into, but they just know that they’re interested in games in general, or really for most entertainment media is to think about, you know, what are the aspects of the game that you really enjoy? Like, is it that you can really appreciate like a certain type of design, like you love level design. Maybe in your spare time, you even make your own levels, whether it’s for, you know, a video game online, whether it’s you’re making something yourself, whether it’s a board game. Think about the types of things that excite you and the work that excites you. And if you’re interested in production in particular, there’s actually a lot correlations that you can probably make to roles like project management, product management. So I would just advise you to take a look at, you know, what really excites you and what type of work do you want to do?

Traci: So I wanted to follow up on some of the things that you’re talking about here. You’ve done a lot of exploration of different roles and what you wanted, right? And tracing that path through it all. But what are some of the significant challenges that you’ve encountered and how did you overcome those along the way?

Jessie: Yeah, that’s also a great question. I think one of the biggest things is that, especially for someone, like I said, production is like a support role. So for people who tend to come into this role, I think there’s a lot of, you know, people pleasing that I want to do. You know, I want to be able to help everyone. I want to be able to make everybody’s lives better. But I can’t do that realistically for every single person, or at least, not to 110%. So I think one of the big things for me that I had to learn, throughout even college, and then in the industry myself is just figuring out how to do what my old boss called ruthless prioritization. Not only for my sanity at work and for the sanity of other people, but for my personal sanity as well. So when I say ruthless prioritization, a lot of it is, you know, there’s always going to be a million things to do, especially with games. You know, It is a form of art. So no art is really ever complete. This is how I usually think of I used to play the piano, and I would never feel like I was done finishing a piece. Whether I had already performed it in a concert or I was still, you know, going through hours of practicing it at home. It was never done because there was always something that I could do better. There was always something that I could make, you know, feel more lively, or I would always make a mistake in one particular section. So it’s kind of a similar thing with games where you can always improve it. There will always be bugs to fix. And there will always be ways to just tune things and make them just feel slightly better or just, you know, find more edge cases that you can address because it’s such an interactive medium. So when we prioritize things, when we prioritize work for the team, There’s a lot of saying, you know, like, which bugs are major. Which types of feedback from directors or leads are most important and will make the biggest impact on the game. Are they things that the team agrees with? And does the team feel like they have a clear path forward and the support that they need to actually accomplish all of that? And as a producer for a large team, you know, there’s a lot of requests that I will constantly get. There’s a lot of people who will message me, whether it is to ask for help on something specifically or to just keep me in the loop and keep me in there for visibility. So I’m constantly having to, you know, read messages, to sit in meetings, to read e mails, things like that. And for myself, I can’t get to every single message right away. I can’t sit in multiple conversations simultaneously. But what I can do is you know, get better at understanding, what is the context of the current conversation? Do I need to be in here right now and is there somebody else who can help out with this at the moment? And so sometimes what I end up doing is making sure that the right people are in the conversation. They have that conversation together with each other. And I can help follow up with any decisions or action items as need be. And usually, you know, I do love getting a chance to actually sit in and understand the nitty gritty, but I can’t be everywhere at once.

Traci: Well, I don’t think you’d want to be everywhere at once, right? That would be draining all of your precious energy. I like that ruthless prioritization idea as well.

Jessie: All the credit for that goes to my last lead.

Traci: It’s a great way to think about what should I do today? You know, even day to day, let alone a long term project. It’s really fantastic idea.

Christa: Yeah, I love how you think about your work and your responsibility to your team and to the projects. You spoke before. You mentioned servant leadership. Can you speak a little bit more about that?

Jessie: Yeah, so when I say servant leader, in my mind, a lot of this kind of comes back to that support role. So in video game terms, I also like to think of production as a support role, where, you know, sometimes if you’re playing a game, there might be somebody who is you know, specializing in fighting, specializing in magic. And usually there’s also a support role if you’re playing in a group or any sort of game that involves a group, where there’s somebody who might provide buffs to the rest of the team or heal the rest of the team. And I think of servant leadership as kind of, you know, the same analogy where my role is to help the team, and like I said, nobody manages nobody reports up to me. So I’m nobody’s lead. When you’re a producer, you can be a lead for other producers beneath you. So if you’re like a senior, you can be a lead to somebody who’s more mid or associate level. But really, my role is, like, you know, I’m working with a large team, in this case, like the gameplay team, and I have to kind of support them wherever I can. But that is my role is to be like their supporter. It isn’t, you know, to manage them career wise or to manage them personally. There are always going to be, suggestions that I give out to the people who are their leads, where I might, you know, from a project management standpoint, say that, you know, certain people are working on certain topics. But really, we have a higher priority feature to work on. So I might suggest that we move, an engineer from one feature to another feature, at least for the current month that we’re working in. But I’m never going to be the one who is, like, you know, fully dictating, especially from a creative standpoint, like, we should do this to tune, you know, how the enemy is currently appearing in the game or how it’s currently behaving.

Christa: Yes. What are the most common questions that you get from students who want to enter this field?

Jessie: I think one of the first ones is, for anybody I talk to, who is interested in production, usually I will ask them back is, what makes you interested in production? Just to kind of get a better sense of what they’re really looking to do? And they’ll usually reflect back to me, what is it that you do in production? So I think one of the most common questions from them is just, well, you know, how is this very different from project management? Like what are the other types of things that you do that make you not just a project manager? And like I mentioned, there are aspects of that, but I think it’s I think it’s understanding that I really also can do anything else that it takes to support the team. So like, for example, at my last company, I wasn’t just working with the development team. One thing that we needed to do as well because we were working on a game within the Alien IP is that I got a chance to be the liaison with Disney and Walt Disney games, and making sure that with Alien as a large IP, you know, that is spanning decades, movies, books, comics, et cetera, making sure that whatever we were doing was in line with the IP, that we had this comfortable back and forth. We had a good relationship with the and that they were, you know, also champions of whatever it is we were doing, because whatever we were going to put out would then become part of the larger Alien cannon. So I guess, like, you kind of go back to your question of what types of questions that people ask me. It’s kind of also explaining to them that, you know, your job may not include something like working with Disney, but it might. And it depends on what you’re up for, what you’re interested in, what you have the opportunity to do. But I think as long as you can kind of find that interest in somebody who wants to be a producer, then they’re probably going to be a good fit, and they we’ll have a bit more direction in terms of what types of production roles they’ll look for.

Christa: So along those lines, what do you wish you knew when you were a sophomore?

Jessie: So one thing that I wish I knew is that because there are so many different classes at Cornell, I wish I got to really sit down and look more at the list to see what I was interested in. So like I mentioned with the game development courses, this wasn’t something that I had stumbled upon, you know, just in looking at the class roster, but it was something that my friends had told me about. And while I did try to branch out of my majors and my minors to kind of find more, you know, out there classes to take and to just expand my field of knowledge. I wish that I took advantage of that opportunity even more, especially, you know, from a sophomore level, getting to have maybe one or two more years within Cornell, maybe further if you decide to stay on for other programs. But really taking advantage of that and using it to the best of my ability.

Traci: There’s so much offered, right? Any campus. With my own child finishing up their first year, every time I open the roster to help them choose their next class, I’m like, Oh, I want to take that. I want to take that. Yeah, and that. And that one, too. It’s amazing.

Jessie: Yeah, but I really do feel like, I think I got the advice a lot before I went into college that, you shouldn’t stick with your major in particular, necessarily. You should really try to push yourself and see what’s out there. And I think at the time when I came in as a freshman, I was saying, well, you know, I know exactly what I want to do. And some people, they do know at that age, and they know exactly what field they want to work in after college as well. But in my case, you know, I actually started out as a math major before I transitioned to information science. And then, you know, as I learned more about games, I actually took on the game design minor. And that actually opened me up to a lot of different other courses that I didn’t know existed. So there’s, like, creative character design, which was a fantastic class, and which I probably would have never heard of if I had initially just stuck with being a math major.

Traci: And that leads us beautifully into the question that we wanted to ask about what classes or classes had the most influence on you. And I’m not trying to put my thumb on the scale here. Because I’ve worked with Jessie in classes before, but you were just talking about the character development class, and tell us about other ones that you enjoyed.

Jessie: For sure. So I think yeah, the clear answer is the intro and the advanced game development courses. I’ll talk about it briefly, too, just because I think, you know, this is really what gave me the bird’s eye view of what it takes to actually make a game from start to finish. And it does follow, you know, a lot of the processes that, you know, most game studios do, just on a much smaller scale. So in some ways, I think of it as, you know, like a baby version of what I ended up experiencing in the industry. And I’m not always, you know, when you come into a game project in any role in the industry, I’m not always going to be a part of every single decision from beginning to end in the same way that I was in the game classes, just because, you know, you’re working with a smaller group, I think it’s something like five to eight people, depending on your group size over the course of about six months, like in one semester. So it really gave me like a sense of, okay, you know, a lot of us are on the design side. There’s people in the team who are on the software side. How do we work together? When do I need to inform them of other things. So there was a lot that it actually did teach me that translated very directly into my role. But I think in terms of other impactful courses, like I mentioned, I really loved the film courses that I took. I think one thing that was really valuable was that I realized that I really loved film studies. And I did take a couple of classes where we were doing things like editing, directing, but I actually found that I didn’t enjoy doing that myself, and I didn’t want to be a screenwriter or an actor, either, but I really wanted to write papers about it. And I think that kind of line of thought also led me to production because I love getting to work with people who are developers, but I don’t actually have an interest in doing the development myself. I might do a little bit here and there from my free time, but it’s not anything that I would ever, you know, go out and actually publish or to create myself necessarily.

Christa: It’s such a great example of finding your way into an industry that you love, into a world where you want to be in it and make an impact, and also finding the perfect fit for your skill set.

Jessie: Yeah. I think a perfect storm of things that all led me to my current role.

Christa: Where do you go to stay current? In this line of work in this industry.

Jessie: So I think with games, the fun thing is that one of the major ways is just by playing video games myself. You know, in some industries, in order to get to know your co workers, you might do things like you might keep up on sports. You may go and play golf with them yourselves. But in my case, I might just play video games myself. I might play them with my co workers, with my friends or with my old co workers. But when a game does come out, you know, that’s really big, similar to, like a blockbuster movie, I want to be able to talk to my co workers, not just about, you know, like, what the story is, what I’ve heard other people doing, but what my actual experience was firsthand. So the fun thing is to stay current is, you know, really just playing video games. Sometimes it’s like the big blockbuster ones, like I mentioned, and sometimes it’s working on smaller things that are for a more niche audience or in a genre that most people are not really interested in. But there will always be things that you can learn from it. And there might be co workers that I know that are specifically interested in a certain genre that I can talk to them about. But I think other ways to stay current, you know, are also just talking to other game developers. There’s a lot of different communities out there. There’s a lot of them that are centered around, you know, maybe certain interests in games and groups that people identify with more closely together. I’m in a couple that are focused on game production as a discipline, which is exciting to, you know, get a chance to talk to people who are interested in production, who maybe want to switch careers into it or want to start the careers there, or who have even been in game production for a really long time. And then I think at large, there’s a lot of events that you can attend, whether virtually or in person. So there are conventions. You know, I think a lot of people have heard of things like Comic Con, but there are conventions that are a bit more focused on games and game development. So, for example, there is PAX, which has an East and a West location throughout the year. I actually went to PAX East when I was at Cornell, with a bunch of friends and the club on campus. But there are also things like GDC, which is the game developers conference that are a bit more tailored to the actual developers behind the games, as opposed to just, you know, fans and players and a mix of developers. And a lot of those events like GDC, will post video recordings of the talks that they have. And a lot of other conferences that are worldwide like women in games or IGDA, which is the International Game Developers Association. A lot of them will also post talks, whether they’re more lecture focused, they’re career panel focused, they’re Q&A. And so I think a lot of those are good resources to just kind of keep up with what’s going on more in the industry level side.

Christa: And I imagine our listeners can follow along on social media, many of these things that you’ve mentioned. And I’m wondering, would it makes sense for a student or a young person in their career to attend, say, for example, women in gaming conferences?

Jessie: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of great opportunities, especially if you think you’re interested and you may think that you’re interested in a certain field or you have no idea which field that you’re interested in. I think it’s a great way to, you know, get to know people. A lot of people like to talk about what they do and to talk about themselves. And I think especially in games, what I found is everybody is so passionate about working in games. Otherwise, they could probably just work for none other software company or some other form of media. But if you’re in games, it’s probably because you really love it. You love playing games. You love making them. And so I think it’s a great way to, you know, not just connect with people in an industry you might be interested in, but also to just connect with other gamers and to, you know, make friends and make connections who you may also just want to play games with.

Traci: So I’m going to ask a hard one, maybe. If you weren’t doing this work, if you weren’t doing this, Jessie, what would you be doing instead?

Jessie: Oh. So I think I have maybe a couple of different answers. So if I weren’t in games, I think I still would be interested in a form of production, but maybe for a different entertainment medium. So I love film, for example, I might want to try you know, being a film producer or even theater and being a theater producer, which I think is quite different from being a game producer. And if I weren’t a producer at all, but I were still involved with games, I think I would probably want to be really involved with diversity and inclusion efforts. So one of the things that I was actually most proud of from my first job, you know, aside from us getting the game out the door, was actually being a part of the diversity and inclusion team. So one thing that we got to do, that was a really fun opportunity was we worked with this great organization called Game Heads for two summers in a row, which is focused on, you know, engaging and training, low income youth and youth of color, specifically for careers in tech and careers in the games industry. And the students we had in the career panel were fantastic. They asked a lot of really insightful and engaging questions. And I remember coming out of those events and talking to the devs who were on the career panel after, and everybody was so energized and so excited by the experience that I would love to be able to, you know, do more of that, too. But I think, if I had to choose something that really wasn’t production or in games at all. My favorite concentration when I was at Cornell, actually, within information science was on ethics law and policy. So I did consider for a hot minute potentially going to law school. And I did end up working with licensing and stuff in my job, but in a much different way.

Christa: We hear some negative things about gaming, right? A some of the games that are out there and experiences people have, particularly those who might be more vulnerable here in real life, often find themselves vulnerable in the gaming world. And so what does that look like? What conversations? What’s happening to address this?

Jessie: Yeah, that’s a great topic, too. I think a lot of it, you know, within entertainment media in general to kind of step back from games, you see the product that will end up on the movie theater screen or that’ll end up, like on the game disc that you bring home. And sometimes there are things within the end product, where like you mentioned, it may not feel like people are all being treated the right way within the game itself, whether it’s like on the scale of characters, or it’s the way that the world is built in the game. But I think a lot of it also has to do with the behind the scenes, kind of like you were alluding to, where, you know, when you take a look at who are the names on the list of credits, when you finish the game and the credits role, and, you know, how diverse of a team that might be, who might have had input in the design, or who might have had input in, you know, all of the different steps along the way. I think part of what we can do to address that is similar to I think what is going on in tech in general is to focus on how we can build people up who may be in less opportunistic places, but who may be interested in games or, you know, tech in general. So for example, with the Game Heads group that I mentioned, working with people who may be interested in a career there, but who may not necessarily know like what discipline they want to work in or just, you know, they may know what discipline they want to work in, but they don’t know where to find the training for it. They don’t know, how can I just reach out to people in the industry and get connections that way. So I think there’s a lot of things that you can do. There’s a lot of organizations that are focused on, you know, whether it’s kids who are in lower age groups, like in middle school, kids that are in more of like what we think of as like the older teenager, like young adult kind of age who are interested in getting into games and making sure that there is opportunity for people to really learn about what they want to do and really learn, what it truly is like to work in the games industry from a younger age. So I think that’s also why, for the game classes I had at Cornell, I was still in the age where You know, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, and I was very lucky to have the opportunity at Cornell to even take a course where you are going to make a game in the first place. And that’s something that I would love to help provide to other people so that, you know, we can end up in a future where if I’m sitting in meeting, I may not be the only woman in the room, I may not be the only person of color in the room.

Christa: Another question. I think our final question, perhaps, what do you do, Jessie, to relax, have fun, re energize, and maybe rest your eyes a bit.

Jessie: Yeah, I mean, I guess to your last point, I would normally say video games, but because I work fully remote, that involves a lot of staring at the screen. So I think, you know, the main thing for me is I’ve played piano since I was little. I’m not doing it as intensely as I used to, but I am doing it more like for myself and for fun. And I find that this is a great way where I literally cannot look at an electronic device if I’m playing the piano, and I have to force myself, you know, to really be there in the moment. I have to give it all of my attention, or else, I’m not going to, you know, play the right note. It’s not going to come out the proper way. So I really like that playing the piano has now for me become a way to relax and have fun, but also is a forcing function where I cannot be at my desk, I cannot be looking at my phone or checking messages from my friends or getting lost in, you know, going down rabbit holes and stuff on the internet. So I think playing the piano has been a really nice kind of safe haven away from you know, separating myself from work, especially because I work at home. And similarly, you know, getting a chance to just actually go out and, like, explore different neighborhoods, explore different parts of the city, especially because I’ve been moving around the past couple of years. But really, you know, getting a chance to really force myself to not look at a computer, to not look at my phone, and to be a lot more present.

Christa: Many of our guests mention music with that question. We have one guest from last season who is a mechanical engineer who designs pianos. You might want to listen to that episode.

Jessie: I actually did listen to that episode. I thought it was really cool.

Traci: Jessie, thank you so much for all of your time today. This has been just so refreshing to be able to hear how well you’re doing at work after not seeing you in class for a couple of years. More than a couple of years. And we’re so glad that you were able to take time to be with us today.

Jessie: Yeah, thank you so much for inviting me. It’s been a pleasure.

Christa: Thank you for listening. If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: From Engineer to Music Executive, Educator, and Author: Howie Singer ’77, ’79

Christa Downey: Welcome to the Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum, where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

We are very excited to welcome to our studios today, Howie Singer, an expert on the implications of new technology in the music industry. In 15 years at Warner Music Group, he served as SVP and Chief Strategic Technologist, analyzing services and companies that could enhance or threaten Warner Music Group’s businesses. As a strategic consultant to Universal Music Group, MQA Limited, and other startups, he currently advises on products, services, and technologies related to high-res music, artificial intelligence, podcasts, and streaming data analysis.

We welcome Howie to the studios. Thank you so much for being with us here today. We’re so glad to meet you. We like to start off each of these interviews by asking: where are you at now? What kind of work are you invested in right now? Then we’ll work backward in time as we go forward through this interview.

Howie Singer: Well, I guess it’s appropriate that we’re doing this from the campus of Cornell because after many years in business, I’m back being an academic. Not that I ever really was—I was a student, certainly—but I am an adjunct faculty member in the NYU Music Business program, teaching data analytics, which is a required class if you want to get a degree in music business at NYU. Data is part of every role just about in the music business, which is a change from when I joined the industry.

In addition, I do consulting work. These days, it’s all about AI. No great surprise because I can’t even keep up with the Google alerts each day with the stories about AI, and I’m just focusing on the effect on the creative industries—music, books, movies, etc. And that’s a long list to just keep up with these days.

And then the third thing, and it’s part of the reason that I’m here, is that when we locked down for COVID—I guess that still counts as recent history, even though it seems like just yesterday and not four years ago—I started working on a book based on the things I had learned in the music business and other research going back to the start of the recorded music business. So, I’m an author as well.

Traci: Well, I like that trifecta of abilities.

Howie: And I like to say I’m semi-retired, so that I’m busy but not trying to work full time.

Traci: It’s a great way to organize your days, right? To be partially retired. You don’t have to do anything.

Howie: Other than showing up for the class where my students are at NYU, that is true.

Christa: Maybe let’s talk about your book then. Do you want to tell the audience about it?

Howie: Sure. I’d be happy to. The name of the book is Key Changes: The Ten Times Technology Transformed the Music Industry. The conventional wisdom that I lived through was that the music industry was humming along profitably, ever so profitably, because of the compact disc, which was introduced in the ‘80s and hit peak revenues in 1999.

And something else happened in 1999—some students on campus at Northeastern introduced Napster, which caused an enormous shockwave through the industry and very large declines in revenue. The story was that this was unique to a point in time, but it really wasn’t. The music industry has always lived on the knife’s edge of technology and business and has often been disrupted when new technologies emerged. Like many businesses, not just music, it had trouble adapting to these changes.

That’s what my co-author Bill Rosenblatt and I explore in the book—how different formats have shaped the industry. We cover phonographs, vinyl, tapes, downloads, streaming, and even artificial intelligence. Each chapter dives into how these technologies coalesced into new formats and how that change affected the rest of the business.

For example, songs are shorter today, and the chorus comes earlier. That’s because of how payments work in streaming, which is now the bulk of the revenue for the music business. Streaming services pay when a song is played for at least 30 seconds. If someone skips at 15 seconds, it doesn’t count. But at 31 seconds, it registers as a play. So, to ensure people listen long enough, artists put the hook or chorus right at the beginning.

That’s just one example, but these shifts have happened over and over—from the earliest recording formats to MTV to the streaming era.

Traci: I’m completely taken in by that—how a simple shift in the pay structure shapes the way songs are written.

Howie: Right. We explore how new distribution channels, revenue models, fan engagement, and even laws and regulations all evolve with these industry shifts. For example, Napster was sued, just like today we have lawsuits against AI companies over unauthorized use of content for training models. These patterns repeat over time.

Traci: It’s really fascinating. We wanted to ask about the biggest challenge you’ve faced along the way to get you where you are today.

Howie: The biggest challenge for me was transitioning from a traditional engineer to a music industry executive. That was a big change.

If you had told me the day I walked onto this campus to enter the PhD program in Operations Research and Industrial Engineering—which today is called Information Engineering—that I would someday be talking to Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin about file sharing, I would have said, “You’re crazy!”

But it was a gradual shift. I started out working on traditional OR problems—routing robots in factories, scheduling employees in call centers. Nothing to do with music. I was just a fan.

Then, in the mid-’90s, technologies started enabling digital music distribution. I was at Bell Labs and AT&T—logical places to explore businesses that could be conducted over networks. AT&T had a history of inventing technologies that played into the music industry, like better microphones, sound for movies, and even audio compression, which became the heart of the MP3.

We tried to build a business around secure digital music distribution. We were too early. Networks were slow—it took 15 minutes to download a song! The music industry wasn’t interested because CDs were incredibly profitable.

That startup eventually folded, but my experience positioned me to land a role at Warner Music leading their future technologies team. That was the start of my career in the music industry.

Traci: I have to say, I’m a little jealous!

Christa: I love hearing how you embrace change. Your book shows how technology’s influence in music can teach lessons across industries. We have many student entrepreneurs on campus—what insights would you share with them about adopting new technology?

Howie: Change is hard. Convincing those benefiting from the current system to make a change is even harder. Often, businesses won’t switch until they see their current model start to fray. That’s true across industries—look at Netflix disrupting traditional movie studios.

For entrepreneurs, one lesson is: If people don’t “get it,” that’s on you. If your audience isn’t understanding your pitch, find a better way to explain it.

Traci: That’s so important. Engineers need to be great communicators.

Howie: Absolutely. My ability to explain tech concepts to music executives—who knew everything about signing artists but nothing about digital music—was key to my career. If you can’t clearly explain your idea, it won’t go anywhere.

Title: Renewable Energy, Mentorship, and Global Impact with Tamir Lance ‘04, ‘05

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum, where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

Tamir Lance is RD&D Module Product Development Manager at Maxeon Solar Technologies. He’s currently based out of Singapore. He completed his bachelor’s degree at Cornell in mechanical engineering in 2004 and went on to do his master’s at Cornell in 2005. We had a fascinating conversation with him covering how teams work globally, working in the renewable energy field, looking for jobs and internships while you’re still a student, networking, the positive impacts of a diverse workforce, and how AI is impacting his industry. Stay tuned for this wonderful conversation.

Christa: All right, Tamir, good to see you here. Can you tell us a little bit about your current work?

Tamir Lance: Sure. I’m a senior engineering manager at Maxeon Solar, based out of the Singapore office right now, but I manage a team both in Singapore and in San Jose. My group is responsible for designing all of the solar panels that Maxeon produces in one of our product lines.

Christa: Excellent. Did you set out to have an international career?

Tamir: I did not. After I graduated from Cornell, I knew I wanted to head over to the West Coast. I was following my girlfriend, now wife, at the time—or girlfriend at the time, now wife. And I did want to work in the renewable space, but at the time, wind energy was big, but that was more in the Midwest, and solar hadn’t quite taken off yet.

I didn’t get started in solar renewables until about 2008. I joined a startup, actually, that had a founder from Cornell. That’s how I met him, at a Cornell event. Since then, I was working out of the San Jose office, and this opportunity to move to Singapore kind of fell into my lap, which was great because my wife was wanting to do something international. So it was a great opportunity, and our daughter was young enough—at a good age to travel. So that’s how it ended up, and I’ve found myself in Singapore for three years so far.

Traci: So I’m gonna have a two-part question here because I have a follow-up about working in engineering teams internationally. But I just wanted to start with, what does your day look like—a normal day, if there is such a thing?

Tamir: Well, I probably wake up earlier than my wife would want me to. The problem with working internationally is obviously dealing with time zones. I think a lot of industries have changed because of COVID and working remotely, so we got a flavor of this even before I left for Singapore.

We have teams in Europe, California, and Mexico, and we have factories in Asia. So there’s this pressure to always be on, even though we try to set boundaries. Typically, my first meetings in the morning start around seven or so. I just get up and take them on the porch or something. I don’t try to be at the office before seven. I’m usually taking calls while getting my daughter ready for school—getting her breakfast, brushing her hair, and being on conference calls.

There’s a limited window every day when it’s not too late on the West Coast and not too early in Asia. So you try to get those meetings out of the way between 7 and 9 AM. I’m usually on the phone while commuting to work. Then there’s a break to deal with colleagues in Asia. By the late afternoon, Europe comes online, and I start taking those meetings.

I also try to balance family life—picking up my daughter after school and making sure I’m present at home. There are a lot of tools that allow for asynchronous work, like Teams, so you don’t always have to be on the phone. If something urgent happens, though, the West Coast starts waking up around 10 PM my time. But I try to keep normal business hours because if you’re always on, you start making bad decisions due to lack of sleep.

Traci: That’s a really good point, Tamir. People think it’s so admirable to be available 24/7, but I see what you see—you start making bad decisions when you’re tired or irritated at the end of the day.

Tamir: Yeah, you send the email you shouldn’t have, or you’re a little more curt than you wanted to be. You might set the wrong tone in a text. You have to be careful about that.

Traci: Absolutely.

Tamir: Stay healthy.

Traci: And I know that you also have some interesting work with mentoring younger engineers and supporting global teams. Can you walk us through some of that?

Tamir: Yeah, that’s a good point. My team is fairly young. I’m only in my early 40s, and most of my team is in their early 30s. Some came from different industries, and others are fresh out of grad school. I’m not just responsible for the products but also for their career development.

Maxeon puts a lot of emphasis on individual development plans. Outside of yearly or quarterly goals aligned with company objectives, we set additional career development goals. We follow a 70/20/10 rule—70% hands-on work, 20% formal education, and 10% research or conferences.

It’s crucial for young engineers to get hands-on experience. Since my research team isn’t located near our factories, we make time for them to visit and see firsthand how their designs get built. It helps bridge the gap between research and manufacturing.

A challenge with mentoring today is that so much work is remote. You don’t just walk over to a coworker’s desk anymore. You have to make a concerted effort to ensure people don’t get lost and stay motivated. We put a lot of stock in mentoring young engineers because if we don’t continuously renew the talent pool, we lose valuable knowledge as experienced engineers retire.

Christa: I appreciate that you put that effort into mentoring. It’s huge and needed. What would you say to sophomores and juniors just starting internships, especially on hybrid or remote teams? How can they best position themselves for learning and contribution?

Tamir: That’s a great question. The most important thing you can do is find a mentor. Whether or not your company has a formal mentorship program, you have to advocate for yourself. Be curious, ask questions, and seek out people who can help.

If you’re lucky, the person who hired you will guide you. But often, hiring managers are busy and don’t think about internships again until the interns arrive. Some companies set up structured programs, so during interviews, ask if they do and what’s expected of you.

Once you’re there, don’t assume people will do things for you. Everyone is overworked. You might have to fight for attention, but most people are happy to talk about their work. If you’re introverted, you can ask questions via email or text. The method doesn’t matter as much as making the effort.

Traci: As an extreme introvert, I appreciate that answer so much. We live in an extrovert’s world, and it’s great to acknowledge that different approaches work.

Tamir: Exactly. I wouldn’t hold it against someone for emailing instead of walking up to me, but you still have to make the effort. Most people will respond.

Traci: Absolutely.

Christa: Tamir, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you for sharing your insights.

Tamir: Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed talking to both of you and reflecting on my career.

Traci: Thank you so much for your time today. It’s been fascinating to hear about your experience working internationally and balancing family and work.

Tamir: Thanks, thanks.

Christa: Thank you for listening. If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate, and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.

Title: From Nuclear Science to STEM Entrepreneurship: Dr. Jarvis Sulcer MS ‘95, Ph.D. ‘98

Christa Downey: Welcome to Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

We had the wonderful opportunity to visit with Jarvis Sulcer, who is the co-founder and COO at Lingo Solutions Incorporated. He earned both his master’s and his PhD in nuclear science and engineering at Cornell. Join us as we learn about his educational journey, his path to being an entrepreneur, and how he gives back to his communities each and every day.

Christa: Jarvis, hi. It’s great to see you here.

Jarvis: Yes, glad to be here. Looking forward to this opportunity to share a little of my story.

Christa: I’m excited to share your story. I love what you are building, and I think we’d like to start with you telling us about your current work. And then also, what does that look like day-to-day and perhaps what motivates you day-to-day?

Jarvis: Great question. I’m currently the co-founder and COO of Lingo Solutions, Inc., an AdTech startup that develops a coding kit that empowers students to build at home or in the classroom. It comes not only with a coding kit, the hardware piece, but also with step-by-step instructional videos that allow students who have no prior experience—or even teachers who have no prior experience in coding electronics—to get introduced through hands-on, real-life applications of different technology.

So day to day, even though my title is co-founder and COO, as you know, at a startup of any type, you wear multiple hats. For me, the biggest hat I wear is B2B sales and business development. My title doesn’t reflect what I’m primarily responsible for, which is driving revenue and new business opportunities from a B2B standpoint.

My day looks like following up with customers, engaging new partners that align with our mission and values, leading my small but powerful sales team, and having ongoing communication with my founder and CEO, Aisha Bowe, on a day-to-day basis. And then, of course, engaging with our customers. That’s what drives any business—customer engagement, follow-up, and ensuring they’re having a great experience. I also make sure my team has what they need to be successful—and then get out of the way.

Traci: That sounds like you have a lot going on all the time.

Jarvis: Yeah, and it’s fun. I didn’t say what motivates me, right? I left that part out. For me, what motivates me more than anything is the impact on the lives of the students we serve through our partners.

Our partners include corporations that want to do community engagement, schools and school districts that want to engage their teachers and students, and nonprofits that may not have a STEM component or may want to add Lingo to their portfolio of offerings. For me, it’s the opportunity to play a role in transforming a student’s life—putting them on a different trajectory.

They may have been intimidated by coding, computer science, or tech, and then they get a chance to build something from scratch with no prior experience. Then they see the backup sensor for a car beeping and working, and they say, I did that. Three hours ago, they had no idea what a conditional loop was in coding or what an ultrasonic sensor is, but now they’ve built something, tested it, and made it work.

That aha moment is what drives me every day. And it’s not just for students—teachers experience the same thing. They may be intimidated by tech, but we help turn that around. That’s what keeps me moving forward despite all the challenges that come with my role.

Traci: It sounds like so much fun. I coached a Lego robotics team at my kids’ grade school, and a lot of what you’re saying resonates—kids saying, Oh, I’ve never done this before and then diving in. I really get a sense that that’s what you’re trying to help people do here.

Jarvis: Yes, it is. That’s at the core of why we started Lingo. We wanted to provide students—especially those who may not have access to these opportunities—with hands-on experience in both hardware and software. Everything today is driven by the combination of those two.

People don’t always think about it, but when they back up a car and hear that beeping sound, it’s not just hardware. That little dot on the bumper is part of a system where software plays a critical role. So, we want students to make those connections and realize, I can do this.

Traci: That aha moment is what keeps so many educators going. Since you’re working with businesses, schools, and nonprofits, I imagine your day is never really the same. What does a normal day look like—if there is such a thing?

Jarvis: A normal day starts with looking at my calendar and following up with customers. That’s a constant—checking in, following up, and engaging with leads. I go through the normal sales motions, but at the core, I see my role as solving problems.

Many of our partners are looking for solutions to challenges they face. I believe what we offer isn’t just a vitamin—it’s a painkiller. A vitamin is something you should take, but a painkiller is something you need.

For many organizations, students, and teachers, Lingo is a painkiller. Schools need ways to engage students in STEM, teachers need support, and corporations want to give back to the community in meaningful ways. My job is to ensure we position Lingo in a way that meets those needs.

Beyond sales, I handle operational tasks, work with my team to ensure they have what they need, and deal with challenges as they arise. It’s a lot of work, but it’s fun. This isn’t just a gig for me—it’s my passion.

Christa: We spoke a few weeks ago, and I learned more about what you’re building. I wish every student had access to something like this. You’re working through different channels to get this out there. What’s been the most significant challenge you’ve faced?

Jarvis: That’s a great question. On the student side, one of the biggest challenges is getting them to believe that they can. Many students have experienced failures or challenges that make them hesitant to try something new. Building their confidence is critical.

The same goes for teachers. They have so much on their plates already, and now we’re asking them to add a coding kit? We have to convince them that this is a value-add and that we will support them so that it doesn’t become just another unused tool.

On the business side, the biggest challenge is scaling a startup. I’ve worked in Silicon Valley, Fortune 500 companies, and nonprofits, but this is different. I feel a responsibility to ensure that our investors see a return on their belief in us. That’s a challenge—delivering 10x or 100x their investment. There are no guarantees, but I wake up every day doing my best to make that happen.

Traci: That’s a big responsibility. It’s inspiring to hear how passionate you are about making a real impact.

Christa: Absolutely. You’ve had such a fascinating journey. If you weren’t doing this right now, what would you be doing instead?

Jarvis: If I had it my way, and if I had grown taller, I would have been in the NBA! Growing up in Louisiana, I had a basketball court in my backyard, and that was my dream.

Realistically, though, I think I would be teaching. I’ve been tutoring since I was in undergrad—helping students in math and science. Even if I weren’t in a formal classroom, I’d still be involved in education in some way.

Traci: That makes perfect sense given your passion for mentorship. Thank you so much for your time today—it’s been amazing to hear your journey and how you’re paying it forward.

Christa: Thank you for sharing your story. I know it will inspire so many students.

Christa Downey: Welcome to the Engineering Career Conversations. I’m Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University. Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum, where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Garrett. We’re really excited to learn more about everything that you’re doing. As I was reading the pre-show notes, I just kept saying, Oh, my gosh, there’s so much to talk about, so we’re real happy that you’re here. So, let’s get us all started. What are you doing right now? What’s your current work? What are you up to? Garrett Lang: So my 60-80 hours a week is with PlateRate. And what we do is we help people earn up to a 60% credit to try top rated menu items at restaurants that we work with. You never pay more than the price ordering directly from the restaurant. Unlike the expense of third party delivery systems, which costs up to 35% more on average than you would normally pay if you went directly to the restaurant. Whereas with us, you trybetter tasting food, you get free food. It’s just better than the way that everybody else orders, and we don’t cost the restaurant anything, and we don’t cost the diner anything. It’s a very interesting win-win business model. I’m aspiring to be the most innovative player in the food tech space, basically being better for both sides of the two sided marketplace, for both diners and restaurants, for even wine stores and other people who sell food and drink. Traci Nathans-Kelly: So is there a definition of what a food tech company is or isn’t? Garrett Lang: I don’t know that there’s a firm definition of that. It’s a little bit, it’s probably a little bit grey, but pretty much anything with food and drink that’s using technology to enable the path. Anywhere from where food is grown all the way to people consuming food and drink, you know, is kind of what I see as the food tech landscape from the founders that I’ve met in the food tech space. Traci Nathans-Kelly: Excellent. That’s a big space. So I just wanted to be sure that I was getting my head around around the right thing. Garrett Lang: If you get into the growing of food crops and stuff, that’s AgTech. So, you know, there’s a, you know, there’s probably a fuzzy gray line between AgTech and food tech sometimes, but, yeah, food tech is more the eating of the food side, but, you know, it can be pretty broad. TNK; Thank you for that. Garrett Lang: Sure. Christa Downey: Okay, Garrett, what does this look like for you day to day? Well, 80% of my time is spent on execution, experimenting, learning and improving until things fit into place. Once they do, it’s more a matter of scaling up, and we’re starting to be at the beginning stages of that. I read this book that said the best entrepreneurs are like scientists running experiments from them, and I might be biased, but that’s how I work. So I hope that I will be a good entrepreneur as I grow the company. I’m trying to do the best I can, and I like to tell people, don’t stress just do your best and accept the rest. You can’t expect more of yourself than your best. Experimenting and learning is actually why we’re here on this Earth, that’s to learn, right? You know, learning knowledge and wisdom. And so I’ve thought about that question since I was about 12. I spent I spent about, probably less than 20% of my time on strategy. That’s kind of the most fun part for me. And hopefully someday that’ll be my over 80% when I can pay other people to do all the execution stuff. But, you know, this is where I’m trying to create a value proposition that’s so good and someone’s got to feel like they’re crazy to say no to me. And I think we have that with Plate Rate, like for both the diner and the restaurant, which I can explain. You know, we are more profitable. We’re more loyalty inducing, and we’re as efficient or more efficient than everyone else for the restaurant. And for the diner, you don’t pay more than you would ordering directly from the restaurant. You get the convenience of online ordering. And you can get up to a 60, and believe it or not, the early adopters can even get up to a ridiculous 110% credit in free food. I can explain how that works, if you want. It’s only for the very early adopters at a restaurant. So that’s that’s kind of the day to day. You know, I also have some side gigs. As, like a fractional CTO CPO and, you know, some other stuff. But this is PlateRate is my majority of my time. Traci Nathans-Kelly: And so how does it work? The PlateRate system? Garrett Lang: So, basically, the diner can order food from their phone. We just had launched an app yesterday, so we’re an app that can use Apple Pay and Google Pay now, which is much more convenient than how we used to accept payment, which is PayPal. But basically, you order food from your phone like you would from Uber Eats, DoorDash and Grub Hub. And right now, we do pick up and delivery, but probably next month or the month after, we’re going to do dine in as well. So you can be sitting at your table. You can have 20 people at the table, and everybody can order their food simultaneously, and everybody get separate checks. Everybody, if you try the top rated menu items at a new restaurant, and you get a 60% credits come back. When you come back, you try new top rated menu items, you get 30% to come back after that. And once those credits run out, then you just get a more convenient way of ordering, and you never end up paying more than the price at the restaurant because you get at least as much free food as you’d pay in a convenience fee. So you never really actually end up paying for it. Traci Nathans-Kelly: And I’m really, it’s such an interesting model, right? I’m like, I’m fascinated by this. How does this not impact the bottom line for the restaurant then? Garrett Lang: It does, positively. So the way that it works is the restaurant offers $10 in free food for every hundred dollars fed. Over 75% of the time, that’s profitable because the diner spends more money. And so it’s profitable for the restaurant to do that. But that fee is our 10% convenience fee. And so the diner never ends up paying more than they would ordering directly from the restaurant. And then the restaurant only pays a 2% credit card fee, which is below cost like restaurant, you know, for online orders. And so the restaurant ends up making more money when we sell their food than when they sell their own food. Plus, we’ve proven with our pilot restaurant that we get 69% more orders per customer over a five month time period. So it’s drastically higher loyalty. It’s not a little bit. It’s a ton, like I just a huge amount, more loyalty. And we do that at no cost to the restaurant. And you know, that’s what I call you’ll be more generous for the diner and the restaurant is what I call generous capitalism. And we also share more money with our team members than most companies do. And we give equity to all our team members. So generous capitalism is where in the free markets the most generous company is the one that’s gonna win, because let’s face it, would you rather do business with a greedy company that gives you less and costs more, or would you rather do business with a generous company that costs less than gives you more? So with that said, I think generous capitalism should be the next stage of capitalism. And I call what we’re in now greedy capitalism, where the companies take everything they can for themselves. And I’m trying to create a generous capitalist business, and my dream is, you know, five years from now to get written up in the Harvard Business Review. That generous capitalism is the future of capitalism, and that companies can actually serve society and their employees and, you know, the community all together. And use their profit to do that rather than to just hoard it. Christa Downey: Love it. So, can you talk about how this compares to conscious capitalism? Garrett Lang: Yeah, so there’s a lot of parallels between conscientious capitalism and generous capitalism. Like, similar philosophy. The difference is using generosity as a competitive advantage is part of generous capitalism. Conscientious capitalism is still you make the money, be thoughtful about everybody, which is definitely a step forward. But I think being generous is another step forward beyond that, where you’re literally giving a better offer to everybody involved, like employees, suppliers, customers. And so by being more generous, you actually win more market share. Because, again, people would rather do business for the generous company. And by winning more market share at a lower margin, you end up doing just fine. And you can, you know, it’s very compatible with conscientious capitalism. You know, a generous capitalist business should be a conscientious capitalist business. It should be a core mission. It should practice stakeholder, I think it’s stakeholder capitalism was the other one that is also aligned. The difference is the generosity and putting all of the business partners forward and giving them more. But they all kind of go hand in hand. So it’s complimentary. Traci Nathans-Kelly: It’s really such a great model that it’s not relying on something after the fact, like a donation. Right? The generosity is built in from the moment you move forward at all. Garrett Lang: Right. It’s part of the business model. The business model is based on generosity. That’s exactly, right. Traci Nathans-Kelly: And generosity boiled all the way through, not just oh, for a tax break, we give some money away, right? Garrett Lang: And that’s the other thing. It doesn’t rely on regulation, right, which I don’t think we should have to regulate this type of stuff. We should do it in the free markets. I think the free markets will bring about a better world if we use them correctly, but we need to get entrepreneurs starting generous capitalist businesses and proving that this is a viable business model. And if we can prove it’s a viable business model, which I think very much that we can, you know, you look at companies like, you know, Adobe has, like, a 90% profit margin, right? Like, there’s plenty of money that could be shared with other stakeholders if they wanted to. So software has very high margins, and if some of that profit is just shared with all the stakeholders, you know, you can be very generous. And so, you know, I think there’s a lot of opportunity. Traci Nathans-Kelly: So, as you’ve been building this, or conceptualizing it and then fine tuning it, because it’s out there. I was out on the website, poking around, having a good time. What were some of the challenges that you faced or are still facing? And how are you working to overcome those? Garrett Lang: Yeah, I mean, so I’m bootstrapped. So that’s probably one of the biggest challenges. You know, I can only spend so much money, you know, per month and be able to sustain it. And so, you know, getting really motivated sales people is probably my biggest challenge now. In the beginning, my biggest challenge was figuring out B to C software. You know, I was overconfident in how really I could figure that out because in my corporate career, I would always, like, go into a new industry or something like that, and then I would ask lots of awful questions to experts. And then within six months, I was considered an expert, and I had people with a dozen years of experience asking me questions that I could answer. So I was probably overconfident from those experiences, thinking, oh, I’ll figure out B to C software really quickly. It took me, like, three years to figure out how to build B to C software and I’m not sure that I’m where I want to be. I want to be at a place where our UX is better than DoorDash, but they have a lot more money than me. So that’s probably pretty aspirational. But we have gotten feedback that we are from some of the people in UX interviews with our mobile app. Um that just came out this week. But, you know, and that probably was my biggest challenge before. Now the biggest challenge is getting into restaurants. I just need to get, we have conversations with restaurant owners, usually the ones that are financially based and, you know, think logically about it. Like, it’s a pretty good deal, right? You need to get 69% more orders per customer. Why would someone not want that? There’s no downside to them. There’s no risk to them. As long as they put us as their preferred ordering system, they get a free ordering system, actually one that pays them. We actually pay restaurants revenue shares, which I can’t go into in detail, but we share with, you know, our revenue with restaurants as well, and I think we’re the only one in the industry to do that. Traci Nathans-Kelly: That’s great. But those are a lot of problems to solve all at once, by yourself. Garrett Lang: I am a glutton for punishment, right? I’m going up against billion dollar competitors, so, you know, that’s okay. Like, we have a great team, and I think we’re very capable of doing very well in this industry. Christa Downey: So I noticed Traci, you started PlateRate by yourself, and, you know, you say, right now, you’re one person. I also know that when you put yourself out there and you start talking to people about what’s important to you, eventually, you’re going to find people who share the same vision or an aligned vision, right? And so I’m curious to know who have you come across so far? You know, are you at that place yet where you’ve found others who are in a similar or related space or you know, I’d love to hear a story of, you know, someone with an aligned vision, you know, a partner, a coconspirator, maybe even a restaurant owner who said, yes, this is exactly what we need. Garrett Lang: Yeah, believe it or not, I actually, I get a lot of those. Like, a lot of people really get it. And it’s interesting because when I talk to restaurant owners, there’s only two camps. There’s the people who get it and the people who don’t. And the ones that go, wow, I know I have some great menu items, and I know if people try those, they’re gonna come back over and over again. And I know that there’s some menu items that not everybody likes, and if they try those, they’re not gonna come back. If I give them a reason to try the best ones, of course, they’re gonna come back, right? That’s pretty logical right? Get people to try the best food. I like to say, good restaurants have some bad food, and bad restaurants all have some good food or they wouldn’t be in business. So everyone’s got some good food. The question is, how do you find what’s the good food, and we’re the way to do that. Because, you know, customers are eating the food. And when you ask a wait staff, you know, what’s a order, they’re trained to tell you two things. They’re trained to tell you what’s about to go bad? Oh, the chicken’s about to go bad. The chicken Parmesan is the best thing on the menu. Or, what’s the most expensive, right? The filet mignon Oscar is, like, absolutely the best thing. It’s, you know, $80. Because that gives them the biggest tip. But as far as finding kindred spirits, I’ve found a lot of them, and we have them on the team as well. And those are the best team members because they see the vision, and they see that we’re really doing right by all our business partners, and they’re motivated to do it. And I have people that are highly, highly motivated to make this company, you know, what it can turn into, which is, you know, we want to be a unicorn someday. You know, that’s the goal. And so the level of loyalty and effort that you get from people who are bought into the vision, the philosophical vision of generous capitalism, as well as the innovative vision of getting people to try the top rated menu items. And we have something called flavor rash with some people out as well. And, you know, it creates a lot of motivation for both team members and partners because partners realize, oh, if I introduce this guy to someone, I’m doing the person a favor. You know, it’s not like I’m sending someone who’s selling snake oil to my friend. I’m selling someone who’s like, giving away the farm to my friend, right? Why would I not want to do that? So it makes it much easier for people to make introductions for me. And again, that’s part of generous capitalism. Traci Nathans-Kelly: That whole model of asking, you know, What’s the best thing here tonight or whatever? Like, my favorite version of that is I always asked the wait staff, what’s your favorite thing, right? Because what things have they tasted? And even just last night, my wait staff person noticed that I was eating all the spicy things cause I do like the spicy things. And she brought over this little container of chili oil infused honey. She goes, you like the spicy stuff. You got to try this. And I have tried hot honey before, but she was spot on it. And so what did we do? We gave her a much bigger tip. Right? So it’s just like this really localized example. I was just resonating with some of the things that you were saying. Garrett Lang: That’s great. And actually, that’s what flavor match is about, is in flavor match we we let customers rate how sweet, salty, spicy, savory, sour, and bitter the food is. How nice does it look, how healthy is it and how big is the portion size, right? How much food are you gonna get? Wouldn’t it be nice to know that stuff before you get it, you can look at something and see how spicy it is from like a zero to 100 scale, and then you know what to get. And the other thing is the type of service you got is awesome, right? Like, that’s a great wait staff, so she deserves a better tip. And the problem is, like, Wait staff are often so busy doing the routine stuff, like writing down your order and typing it into the POS. They can’t provide that kind of service. Whereas with the PlateRate, they don’t have to do those routine things. They can focus on providing the kind of service you got. And that’s what we want to do. We don’t want to get rid of wait staff. Some people want to use a system like PlateRate to get rid of wait staff. And that’s not what I recommend. Like, maybe in a casual place like an area you could do that. But most of the time, that’s not the idea. The idea is to give better service to more people. Get better tips for the wait staff. You turn tables faster so they can serve more people at the same number of tables. You know, people don’t have to wait for their check at the end of the night because you just pay on your phone and walk out. Traci Nathans-Kelly: That part I love. Garrett Lang: One of my people, one of my users, said that was his fever part of the app. He’s like, Garrett, I felt like it was free. She’s like, I know I paid for it, but I never got a check, so it felt free. Christa Downey: Like you’re at a resort, and you just take your rest. Traci Nathans-Kelly: With your degree in computer science from Cornell, and you’ve obviously just used the heck out of that degree. Of course, you know, the elephant in the room right now is AI. And so what is your, like, relationship with AI? With your company? Is there one? How do you see it affecting the work that you do? Garrett Lang: Great question. So this does get into roadmap issues. I can’t share too much about it, but I can’t say my specialization in Cornell was AI. And so I have a lot of ideas of how to use AI. I don’t see the AI use cases as being the major differentiator for us right now. So I’m not focusing on doing those things immediately. But when I start to have spare budget, they’re definitely going to be really cool features that I can implement. And, you know, I have ideas that will use AI that will transform the way that people do orders from restaurants. You know, I can’t go into it in too much detail. Unfortunately, like, I’ve had over a dozen times where I shared stuff without an NDA. That idea suddenly popped up. And there were ideas that I had had for years that no one had ever done. And then as soon as I shared it publicly within a year, there was a company doing just that. So since that’s happened to me over a dozen times, I’ve become much quieter about roadmap stuff. Christa Downey: Garrett, you mentioned that you’ve been I think you said you’ve been thinking like this, maybe as an entrepreneur since you were 12. I’m curious to know what you wish you knew when you were maybe not 12, but maybe when you were a sophomore at Cornell. Garrett Lang: Yeah, I actually, my mom gave me a letter that I wrote my grandparents when I was in middle school saying how I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And I already was kind of an entrepreneur in middle school. I would sell Gobstoppers for that cost me $0.50 for a package. I’d sell them for a quarter per Gobstopper, so I actually had a better profit margin with my Gobstopper sales than I do with PlateRate. But the volume was much lower. Three or $4 a day, something like that, but I made good candy money out of it. And so I had always wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I also wanted to know that I had a good chance of success and I wanted to know what I was doing. So that’s why I went into Corporate America first, and I really learned how to a lot of the best companies do business. But as far as what I wish I knew when I was a sophomore, Um, I wish I had known this before I went to Cornell is that I recommend this every student you should choose at ten classes per semester, not four to five that you want, if you have an interest in. You sign up for the four to five that are the hardest to get into, so you can definitely get into them. And then you have five or six that you could audit that during open enrollment, you pick out of the ten classes you’re auditing for that you’re attending, which are the professors that are the most interesting, the most engaging? And you drop any classes that are part of those professors, and you sign up for the ones that are the professors that are great. And I started doing that in my junior year, and the quality of my classes was so much, I remind you, my first two years was mostly requirements. So I didn’t have a lot of choice to to do that, but for people who were in, and I was an engineer, but I would take, you know, a lot of credits. I had to petition the dean a bunch of times to take the credits that I was taking because I just loved learning, you know. And and so, you know, that signing on for, you know, auditing extra classes and just taking the best ones was, like, it just improved the quality of my education so much. It improved it so much that there’s a class that I still wish I could have taken on like, Ancient Egyptian and Chinese or Asian philosophy. That was like, really cool. I learned stuff that I still remember to this day and tell people the stories about, like, the books of the dead from the Egyptians passing on their knowledge to their kids. And so I’m going to create a book of the dead for my kids, where I try to pass on my knowledge to them. A lot of my philosophy essays will be part of that. So yeah. Traci Nathans-Kelly: Yeah, that’s really cool. As somebody who has to work a lot with a required course that everybody tries to get into, I wish they would follow your methodology, right? So get all those things that you have to do, and then have some of those things that you want to do. It’s a really great philosophy, and then you end up, yeah, with a really nice balance in the end. Garrett Lang: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I took I was like, half way to minors in Spanish lit, economics, history and business. So, you know, I just I loved those courses. But I also loved my CS. Like, CS, like, I actually applied to Cornell. Arts and Sciences undecided anything but CS because I did so much technology when I was young. Like, I was working for an ISP. I was a programmer, you know, starting in middle school professionally. And so I just had so much technology that I was overloaded. But then I actually ended up deferring Cornell for a year and going to Spain as an exchange student. And I wasn’t that tech focused there, right? Because they weren’t very tech focused. I did do some tech consulting with my school and helped them out a little bit, but, like, I wasn’t as deep in technology. So by the time I got into Cornell, like, oh, let me try a CS class, and man, I was just hooked right away. I just loved it. Like, I looked forward to my homework assignments and a lot of my classes. Not all of them, but most of them. Traci Nathans-Kelly: Well, that leads us to a question we also like to follow up on the heels. It’s like, what were those favorite classes? You’ve already given us some of them. Garrett Lang: Algorithms with John Kleinberg was so much fun. That was one that I really looked forward every week to my homework sets. And, you know, I would, you know, like, I would just have so much fun trying to, like, puzzle through how to create an algorithm that solved whatever problem he had. And it’s really served me well in my career, ’cause I created I’ve created all my own AI algorithms throughout my career. I actually created ad tech algorithm that, like basically made obsolete and advanced on the last five years of development in just one algorithm, and ended up doubling click through rates for advertising. And I used to say, like, I want ads to be a value add. I don’t want to show someone the ad that they’re not interested in. And what this did is it showed ads to people that were more likely to be interested in the ad. So, you know, I’ve also found that in my career, every year of my career, like, without fail, my developers will come to me and be like, Garrett, what you’re asking us to do is impossible. My response is always, well, before we give up on it, can we dive into the details together? Yeah. And so, like, one example, they were like, Oh, we ran this query for three days and it didn’t come back. And so I said, well, before we give up, let’s look at the query. And so I worked with our DBA. We looked at the query. I looked at the algorithm the query was using. And I said, All right, we’re going to create an index here, here, here, here and here, like, on these particular fields. And then boom, some sector response times, like, no problem. And that’s been, you know, that’s just one example, but every year in my career, that’s happened and where people said something was impossible. Maybe a little less often when I managed my own development team, but when it was other people managing the development team, they were very often like, Oh, this is impossible. And I’ve always been able with, you know, that Cornell just has an outstanding, theory based program, and they teach us how to solve problems, not syntax, but problems, technically. Traci Nathans-Kelly: I like that differentiation there between solving the problems and the syntax. Garrett Lang: Yeah, Syntax, you know, I’m not good at it anymore. Like, my developers are way better at syntax for problem solving. I can do that, like nobody’s business. Like, Cornell taught me to do that. I was already doing, like, lawyer problems for fun in high school. So, you know, I have a natural aptitude and desire to do that type of stuff, but Cornell taught me to do it even better. And that’s also where I learned about Godel’s Completeness Theorem, which was my second philosophical essay defending free will, using Godel’s Completeness Theorem. But that’s another tangent that goes into my not for profit if you want to go into that later. Traci Nathans-Kelly: That seems like a whole other interview. Christa Downey: Wow. I’m learning a lot from you, Garrett, and I’m thinking if there are students who want to learn more about this, who want to learn from you. Maybe they want to get involved in PlateRate, work with you, learn from you that way. What would that look like? Garrett Lang: I would love to get students on board, especially, you know, in Ithaca, because, you know, why would students want to get all their friends and family the opportunity to get a 60% credit and free food when they try the top rated menu items, the restaurants. And not only do they get to be a good friend by getting everyone that 60% credit. They get paid every time their friends get it. And it never costs their friends a dime. So you know, why would a student not want to do that? When I was at Cornell, I created something called the College Town Community card, where I got discounts of, like, five or 10% from local businesses if someone had the card, and I sold the card so that we could get fund raising for running communities. I didn’t compete anything for that. But if someone does this, they could make $50,000 a year, potentially, you know, getting a bunch of high volume restaurants on board that have become really popular with college students. And we also you know, and you never pay more than you would at the restaurant after the free food that you earn, and you’re supporting the local restaurants by making them more money than they would make if you were ordering any other way. You’re not paying the 35% extra that Uber Eats, DoorDash and Grub Hub charge. We get 29% more spend per customer compared to the average pickup and delivery order, so they you know, the restaurants making more money there. So people can e mail me resumes if they’re interested at Garrett@PlateRate.com if they’re interested in getting involved. We have other opportunities as well. I like to say I hire people, not people into roles. And so I have people to come in. I have a guy that came in recently. He’s doing sales, customer solutions, and marketing. And he within his second week, not only sold two restaurants, but because he followed my onboarding really well, he onboarded those two restaurants, and now next week, those restaurants should be promoting us, and he starts to make money. So he’s also learning how to do SEO from, like, a real SEO expert. So I really like to follow what I call the modified platinum rule. The platinum rule is to treat other people the way that they want to be treated. And my modification is, as long as there’s so good reason not to, because you could abuse that, right, like, oh, I want you to do everything, you know, do my laundry, right? Well, no, like, let’s be reasonable here. So, but I do, really, when I, you know, bring people on, you know, right now, it’s all equity based and revenue share based in the US. And so I really want people to have a good experience. I want to make sure that they’re learning from other team members, including myself. That they’re working on the things that they want to work on and that they’re getting experienced in different areas, which I think is especially good for college students. You know, I wasn’t so sure what I wanted to do coming out of Cornell. And I think a lot of college students may have that question is, well, would I like this? Would I like that? Well, come to PlateRate, dabble in marketing, dabble in sales, dabble in customer solutions, and see what you like. And then, hey, now you’ve learned what job roles you like and what you don’t, and you know what it’s like to work in a start up. And you’ll know whether you like that or you want to be in a big more structured environment, cause, as you can tell, We’re actually fairly structured in terms of, like, our onboarding is very structured. But in terms of how we work together, we’re very fluid, and we just collaborate with each other. It’s very, very flat organization. Traci Nathans-Kelly: It’s really interesting. We’ll have, just so that nobody gets nervous, we’ll have all the information that you’ve given available in the show notes as well. But one of the one of the questions we like to ask ’cause you’re in a space that’s moving and evolving really quickly. So, how do you stay on top of things? How do you get new information and stay atop of what’s happening? Garrett Lang: So, I actually use Google alerts, and what Google Alerts does is you put key phrases in, and it scours the news every day and sends me a summary of, you know, what food tech companies are doing around the globe. And doing that, I’ve been able to keep really close track, which is how I’ve seen my thesis, you know, from, like, when I shared menu and level reviews with someone, I saw, you know, I shared it with someone, and then a small company in India let out a press release, that they were going to start doing it. And then Zomato in India, which is one of the big food tech companies ended up copying that. So they you know, I could watch that I and then Door Dash ended up copying it from them. So you can sort of see when you watch the news really carefully, you can see ideas spread from company to company. And, you know, Google alerts really keeps me on top of what’s going on, because most people when they implement something new and interesting, they do a press release, or something is written about it in the news. Traci Nathans-Kelly: That’s such an interesting strategy, and then being able to, like, map it and watch it move through development. I actually keep a Google doc of every news article I read, and, like, what my takeaways were of the Google the news. Sometimes I read news that says, hey, maybe I want to do something similar to this someday in the future. And I keep track of those things. And then when I’m looking for roadmap items, I go back to my news list, and I’ll say, here are the ideas that I wanted to look at. In addition to a roadmap that I have with hundreds of ideas, you know, I can use some of those ideas because, you know, ideas are not copyrightable and or they’re not defendable now, personally, I think they probably should be sometimes. You know, the idea of one time incentives for repeat business the patent office agreed is novel, but they just said it’s not patentable material. I’m still arguing with them about that and hoping that I can get a patent, but the problem is they say anything in software is not patentable. Although there’s one caveat that I found, which patent lawyers have agreed with me on. If you can confuse the heck out of the patent office, you can get it patented. So you just have to make it, like, so complicated that they can’t understand what’s going on, and then you can get and defend a patent. Traci Nathans-Kelly: The patent thing is really interesting there is this mess with software. Some people are trying to patent it under process, right? Like this relative process. And so it’s really kind of a wild ride. The patent office, they’re flummoxed. Garrett Lang: They don’t understand technology, and that’s the problem, they have to learn technology. You’re right. They’re confused. And their confusion is coming out loud and clear with a lot of unclear legal cases and, like, not a clear, the line that I just drew, as funny as it is, is the best that I’ve come up with after talking for many hours to many, you know, litigators and patent lawyers, and, you know, and they’ve all agreed that that’s pretty much how it works today. And that’s not how it should work, right, but that’s how it does work. Traci Nathans-Kelly: Well, that’s your big next career move, right? You can go to the patent office and get everything. Garrett Lang: I did get told when I was a kid, you’re likely to be a lawyer, so ’cause I like to argue a lot and I have no problem in confrontation or having a confrontation, although I always tried to do it politely. And I tried to listen first now, but when I was younger, I didn’t so much, and people were like, You should be a lawyer. So, which wasn’t always a compliment, but I took it as one anyway. Christa Downey: So if you were not doing this right now, what else would you be doing? Garrett Lang: So innovating software somewhere. Like, if it wasn’t in food tech, it would be somewhere else. I have a list of no joke over 50 businesses that I want to start. So, you know, I’d be inventing something, you know, something that blows away the rest of the industry. Like, I want to innovate in industries and transform the industries to be different than they are today and much better and much more efficient and much more beneficial to everybody involved. So, for me, it’s about using innovation to serve society. And there was a friend of mine that recently sent me a quote, and it talked about how I’m just going to paraphrase it, but it talked about how when some people in society are suffering and other people are doing really well, society is not healthy, and, you know, you end up with problems. They were like, Well, this sounds like a quote from today, doesn’t it? Well, it was actually from Pericles in the four hundreds. And so, like, this has been known for a long time. And I think more of us have to be serving society in general rather than just doing the best for ourselves and letting everything else go to hell. Traci Nathans-Kelly: And you’re carrying a lot on your shoulders. You have all of this work to do, all this inspiration, but then we have to ask what you like to do for fun. Recharge. What do you do? Garrett Lang: I have a saying, which may be helpful to people. I’ve had some friends that like to repeat it when they get stressed out. I don’t stress, do your best and accept the rest. And I live my life that way. So do I have a lot on my shoulders? Maybe, maybe not. Like, a lot of people won’t expect me to change the world, but I still want to, so I’m going to try to. And I have another saying that goes along with that, which is keep your hopes high and your disappointment low. It’s the only way to go. And I try to do that every day, too. And with that, I’m highly motivated every day. As far as how to relax, it may sound odd, but philosophy with good company, over wine and spirits is my way of relaxing. And I host events where we talk about philosophy in New York City through my not for profit, the Free Thinker Institute. We discuss everything, you know, from whether or not we have free will, which I mentioned earlier, I think I have a pretty solid logical argument that we do have free will. If I’m right, then it will be very interesting. But I’m not a PhD in philosophy, so I don’t know that anyone would academic will want to read it, but if they do, I would love to share with them. And then from that then, how do we do the most good in the world? How do we live a happier, more fulfilling life? We’ve also talked about politics. And despite the amount of negativity around a lot of the political things that we’ve talked about, we’ve talked about the Israeli Palestinian complex. We’ve talked about the you know, Russia and Ukraine war, where we talked about abortion, you know, very, like, incendiary topics, but we have very polite conversations because I announce at every meeting that the only rule we have is to be polite. And so if someone is not polite, they get warned, we’re very strict with that. And so people keep more, calm cool and collected, and I think that we all learn more when we’re calm. When we start to get emotional, we make bad decisions. And so I try to keep everyone in the logical part of the brain. The cerebrum, rather than in the mammalian emotional part of the brain or the fighting flight reptilian part of the brain, And, you know, it’s been really fun doing that. I’m also lucky to live in a community where my neighbors like to talk about this stuff. And so we have each other over having a wine club, our first wine club meeting tomorrow, actually, with my neighbors and we’ll meet and we’ll just talk about intellectually interesting things over food and, you know, appetizers and wine. Traci Nathans-Kelly: Sounds like a best life. Sorry for the pun. Recipe. Right? It can’t be helped. Christa Downey: Someone suggested this morning that I throw in a question one of those, like, coffee or tea, chocolate or vanilla type questions. And the one I came up with, hopefully, you feel okay answering. It’s OK if you don’t, but the one that I came up with that I wanted to throw out there is Michelin Star Restaurant or food truck. Garrett Lang: So, Christa, I like to say, when I’m given two good choices, I like to choose both. So it depends on my mood. Like, I love Michelin Star restaurants, but I’ve had some amazing food at food trucks. And I am not a high brow. You know, I’m not gonna eat at a food truck kind of guy. Like, I love food trucks. And the question is, am I ordering the best thing at the food trot or am I going to order the thing that nobody likes but they’re still selling because it sounds good, but it doesn’t taste good, right? And so even volume doesn’t tell you whether or not it’s good or not. But if I find the best food somewhere, which I’m looking forward to PlateRate getting into more restaurants and then trying the best food at each restaurant, which is what I really want to try. And then I’m just getting the best of the best from the places that I frequent. But yeah, I like both. Christa Downey: I can’t wait to get on PlateRate. Garrett Lang: Cool. We’d love to have you there. Hopefully we can get some restaurants near you. If you know any commission-based salespeople, have them reach out to me. Traci Nathans-Kelly: We just wanted to thank you so much for spending this time with us today and walking us through these wonderful ideas. I explored earlier on the website. Now I’m even more excited because I understand the structure and the philosophy, the generous capitalism is a real eye opener. And I hope it becomes a framework that more and more people can come to willingly and with some great energy. So thank you for bringing that to our attention. Garrett Lang: My pleasure, and I’m hoping it catches on, as well. I think it’ll be good for everybody. And thank you so much for having me on the show. I know you guys do a lot you’ve had a lot of distinguished guests, so it’s an honor to be amongst them, and I really appreciate it and enjoyed our time together. Christa Downey: Thank you for listening. If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow, rate and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode, where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.