TITLE: Creating Technology for Sustainable Food Production:  Matthew Gellert ‘17

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[00:00:04,160] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Welcome to the engineering career conversations. I'm Christa Downey, director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University.

[00:00:12,165] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: And I'm Tracy Nathans-Kelly, director of the engineering communications program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you.

[00:00:21,480] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Welcome Matt.
[00:00:28,740] MATTHEW GELLERT: Thanks.

[00:00:30,420] MATTHEW GELLERT: Glad to be here. CHRISTA DOWNEY: Yeah,
it's good to have you.

[00:00:33,630] CHRISTA DOWNEY: I'm going to introduce you. Matt is a Biosystems Engineering Manager for Square Roots, an urban farming company based in Brooklyn, New York. He studied Biological Engineering at Cornell University and Software Engineering at Flat Irons School before going to work in the agriculture industry, first for Aero Farms and now for Square Roots. So Matt, can you tell us more about your work?

[00:00:56,435] MATTHEW GELLERT:
Yeah, Absolutely. Thanks, Christa. So yeah, it's Square Roots. We design, build, own, and operate indoor vertically farms. We are vertically integrated vertical farming company.   
We are working to develop a distributed network of lean farms that sell high value, high quality, and high impact products. So for me and my team, it means, and I lead the hardware engineering team. So we're designing productive, space efficient systems that can be manufactured and commission quickly and affordably. We partner with food distributors like Good and Gordon Food Service and UNFI. We build our farms directly on their campuses. This allows us to
minimize things like cold chain transportation and impact, and also provides us access to their network and resources. So yeah, we might team develops all the growing systems in addition to operational tools, automation equipment integrations, and modifications, we get to work really closely with nearly every other department. Plant R&D and optimizing, grow recipes, farm teams to collect feedback or provide technical support. Our software engineering team to optimize farm control and workforce management applications. And then we have a manufacturing and deployment team that'll take our designs from a few prototypes to hundreds or thousands of
parts and production farms. We work a lot with our hands and we love making elegant and functional designs come to life, use 3D printers, metal and plastic fabricators, and then kind of a standard set of machine tools to do this.

[00:02:33,575] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: Coming from a farming community growing up, I grew up in Southern Idaho. This is all really fascinating to me and I've seen a lot of this developing over the years, these indoor agricultural ventures versus traditional farming like I grew up and saw the fields in my home state. And so can you walk people through what differentiates your indoor agricultural model from traditional models and where you see it going in the coming years.

[00:03:03,860] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. So like the highest level differences are ones you'll hear if you talk to anybody in the industry, which is amusing, significantly less
water, usually 90% or more or less than traditional agriculture, as well as significantly less fertilizer. We can avoid things like soil degradation, biodiversity loss, runoff, pesticide use. And there are traditions, more traditional methods of course of avoiding some of those.
But categorically like we avoid those as well as we're able to grow year-round and pretty much any climate. We're using, almost depending on the situation for us, we use entirely artificial
lighting sources. Some might use supplemental lighting sources, but we're artificial lighting. We're conditioning an isolated environment so we can tune the environment to exactly what those plants need. As well as there's a strong value proposition for increased nutritional content.
A large part of that is because of the produce is fresher, it gets harvested and it's on the shelf on the same day, sometimes in a matter of hours. And also connected to those increased nutritional
qualities can be that they're grown under ideal condition with tailored genetics. I think something that's surprising to a lot of people is it takes obviously a lot of non-solar energy inputs
for indoor agriculture. But study, recent studies have shown that the energy input into traditional agriculture is balanced out by that used in a controlled environment. Once that produce is traveling at least 1,000 mi, and most produce travels at least 1,500 mi from where it's grown to its final destination. And in California to New York is 3,000 mi. Even from there to the Midwest, Mexico. It's traveling quite far and that's a large part of the impact. 

[00:04:58,895] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: I really think that the intersection here of the  different sciences we got, it seems like two ends of the spectrum coming together with the work that you do. So how did you get to this intersection of software engineering and bioengineering degree?
[00:05:18,260] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, so studied Biological Engineering at Cornell.
I think the program was going through a transition where it was still the biological engineering program, but now that program is actually the biomedical program. Agricultural engineering.
I think for a while at Cornell is becoming coming back and rising prominence. And so I was in this period in-between where some people are focused on CEA, Neil Mattson, Dr.
Michael Timmons, Dr. Michael Timmons was my advisor and he was a pioneer in aquaculture and aquaponics through, through him and working in renting some space in one of the greenhouse at Cornell that I got hands-on experience with this. And then I also
had an internship for a venture capital firm where I was on their prospecting team and I would look through everything, coming through a select group of investors, all their investments. So I would see a lot of big tech investments. And so that's where I saw some of the early entrance to
the industry like Aero Farms and Bowery and Plenty and I'd see their funding rounds. So I kinda was aware of them from this internship experience and then got further exposed through my,
Particularly my advisor at Cornell. We did a class called entrepreneurial management for engineers, where the class collectively wrote a business plan, designed an aquaponics farm that would provide financial independence for an orphanage in Chile. And I lead the engineering
team for that project. So I got a really great like holistic exposure to all the different verticals,
like designing it, what the social impact is, the business side. And I really like all of it.  And part of it was just that it is so multi-disciplinary in its nature that I was attracted to it because I'm
just very curious about everything that goes into it.

[00:07:10,550] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: Matt, You probably with your work with Mike Timmons and the aquaponics, worked with our colleague from engineering communication, Dr. Rick Evans. I believe he was in on those rounds too. It was a really great project and it has so much life and legs on it. With those, that aquaponics. They will be so happy to know how this has cascaded out for you.

[00:07:36,245] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. I definitely thought that project was
something I really enjoyed on multiple levels. So yeah, it was overall great experience and kinda led me down this trajectory.

[00:07:47,645] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Yeah. At Matt, your resume and experience is quite impressive. So thank you for doing this important work. What would you recommend to students and undergrad or maybe MENG student who is curious about this and thinking they might be able to find a way into contribute to this type of work.
[00:08:15,965] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, start reading about it.
Reach out to people. Especially at Cornell. There's a lot of resources. But I think most importantly like grow something. Go online, find a basic hydroponics kit, or just buy one. Let's see. Do you enjoy growing things? It's great to see how what you build and what you set up and how that influences the product and then you get to enjoy it, share it with other people. I think that's probably the most important thing. Your curiosity will naturally lead you to focus on a certain element of that system. If you'd like the electrical side, you might get really into getting like a Raspberry Pi or an Arduino and setting up the control system. Or you might dive deep into the genetics and what plants you want to grow, how you control the environment. So I think that's probably the most important thing is just to start growing and, and kinda exercise that interests you.

[00:09:18,860] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: You've indicated in a couple of places the kind of skills and interests that you had coming to where you are now, can you think of specific things that you would recommend to undergraduates like, Don't forget to do this. As well as skills, but also other activities that may influence how they get through their college years.

[00:09:40,220] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Computer aided design and engineering softwares are some of the most powerful things that we and most engineering companies utilize. We can do mechanical simulations, fluid simulations, HVAC, we can do a lot of stuff on our computers and digitally before investing heavily into prototypes and testing. And hardware, like just working in a hardware environment like that. That's very important, trying to mitigate risks. I think that's probably the most, one of the most important skill sets to adopt. Other, other than that, it's such a multi-disciplinary industry that mechanical, electrical and software, biological, engineering, business marketing. I mean, there's room for everybody. I think. Yeah, for engineers. Cad, some sort of exposure to food production, some sort of exposure to biology. It helps, but it's not, it's definitely not necessary. There's a lot of people who can contribute, who don't have a knowledge and all of these areas, and they really just need to be interested in.

[00:10:53,825] CHRISTA DOWNEY: It's very clear that your work contributes to a healthier, more equitable and more sustainable world. And I would love to hear more about what you see is the vision that you're working toward?

[00:11:07,390] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. I think overall, like, you know, I think there's like what the industry is trying to do, what we're trying to do. And then there's obviously overlap. I think the industry is trying to move towards a place where we're reducing food waste, reducing our carbon footprint. We're able to produce food near where it's needed, particularly to supply food deserts. As I mentioned, like fresh produce travels very far. There's tens of millions of people in the US who don't have access to nutritious food. So doing that in a sustainable way and continuing to improve on those metrics to not just be comparable to do traditional agriculture, but be bumpy better and not to replace it, but to supplement it. Especially right now. It's good for certain food and not for others. Leafy greens, herbs we’re just starting to get into things like tomatoes, strawberries, or the industry in general. And then there's also like skilled job creation. Like the average age of farmers is over 60 years. And in many places it's a lot more. Farms are getting bigger, they're consolidating. Younger generations are less interested in taking them over and then that's a problem too. So this kind of new approach with that utilizes technology. It's an interesting opportunity for existing firms to diversify and it also attracts younger people and will help proliferate diversification in agriculture. Then. Lastly, like I said,  I mentioned, producing more nutritious food. You know, being able to supply a better food. And fresh food is the most, sustainably is the most important thing like that. That's the goal.

[00:12:54,140] CHRISTA DOWNEY: That's an inspiring vision and goal, Yes, Thank you. 
[00:12:59] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: The division between the generations of farming is, is that a critical point right now as you, as you well know, and I appreciate that you are shining a light on that as well, right. It's not just a technological answer, but we need people to take up the helm and start doing all these new wonderful processes that we can get our fresh food with. That said, what people and organizations are important collaborators to you overall, like where do you look for inspiration or future collaborations?

[00:13:32,350] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. So definitely like things coming out of academia. I follow stuff coming out of Cornell, Dr. Chieri Kubota, Ohio State University and Neil Mattson at Cornell. Bruce Bugbee Colorado. And all of those have content on YouTube. For people who are interested. Yeah, AgSci Café with Dr. Chieri Kubota is a really great one. Otherwise, we do have there are some like, kind of indoor agriculture Consortium's in New York that get together. But ultimately, I think academia, companies that are out there trying it right now. There's this indoor Ag Con, conferences where you get the opportunity to meet with people in network and learn what they're doing? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely a lot of a lot of resources out there. I mean, yeah.

[00:14:35,225] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: We'll have some of those resources listed out 
for the listeners so they can tap into those as well. Thank you very much.

[00:14:42,510] MATTHEW GELLERT: Of course.

[00:14:43,870] TRACI NATHANS KELLY: Now, what was the most significant challenge you
faced in your work and how did you overcome it?

[00:14:51,480] MATTHEW GELLERT: So there's a lot of ways to approach this. I think one of the most significant challenges was when I joined square roots, I joined Monday, March 9th, and then Wednesday, March 11th is where things with COVID really picked up and most of the company went home. We had just started the design of a new farming system that was really a big step for Square Roots. And we were on a timeline to try and deploy this farm beginning of 2021. So just navigating the sudden change in both the foods, food landscape, the economy supply chain. Changing designs like to meet parts that we were able to get easily before or materials are no longer available or a much more expensive. And having to adapt like our, our workflows, our designs around that was particularly challenging. And then once we actually go to build the farm, working and coordinating with contractors, I went to Michigan. I was there for a few months, just kind of overseeing the commissioning of the farm. And it was definitely. Challenging process from design, testing, procurement, contractors and now it's been in production for a couple of years. So that was definitely, that was probably the most challenging thing that we've had to face.

[00:16:25,325] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: We like to ask our guests to dial back a few years. I'm thinking about when they were a sophomore. So just about the time that you affiliate with a major and you're starting to make some decisions about specific paths. So what do you wish you knew at that critical moment, if you could go back and tell yourself something?

[00:16:46,300] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think one thing is to diversify or your internships and your extracurricular activities. I think a lot of people might go back to the same company and I think that's great for somebody who really knows what they wanna do. But if you're not sure, just keep trying things it does it does add up. Every internship or thing that I did was a little bit different, but they all contributed to ultimately realizing what I was, what I was interested in. So that's something to think about. It's like try different things. If you're thinking, if you're not sure you're interested in something like explore it. Another, like maybe more specific one is I at the time and I'll think a lot more people are aware of like software engineering boot camps. It was pretty, they were pretty still in their nascency in  2017. And those are really great. I mean, it Flat Iron and it was a 15-week program. I had from Cornell some exposure to software engineering and some of my own personal projects. But it really took me from I left that with the confidence to I was while I was applying for jobs in agriculture, I was also applying for jobs as a software engineer. Those skills ended up being immediately translatable to controls engineering and automation engineering. I've definitely enabled me to do the job I do now where I interface with electrical engineer's control engineers, software engineers and mechanical engineers, and a 15-week program that can be, some of them are shorter, some of them are self-paced. But it adds this tangible and immediately usable skill set. When I was there, there was a student who actually was a sophomore. They were taking a semester off to do this program and then going back and they were doing software engineering at school. And it's a different way of learning. It's very targeted towards developing a strong technical skill set. So I think if anybody's interested in software engineering in particular are thinking might supplement their education well, it's an incredible investment.

[00:18:58,370] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: That's really great advice. Thank you. I hear that a lot from people already out in the world and they want to freshen up their skills. But I think the idea of a bootcamp, maybe as a summer project or something, right, is a really nice way to supplement what they already have.

[00:19:14,390] CHRISTA DOWNEY: I have so much curiosity around this subject, and I'm actually thinking maybe at some point I can come and visit and see what you're growing and what that looks like. And you have important work to do. So right now. So for today, I think we should move into the speed round. You ready?

[00:19:31,415] MATTHEW GELLERT: Sure.

[00:19:33,260] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Okay. What do you do, Matt to relax, have fun, or re-energize?

[00:19:39,245] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah. I spent a lot of time outdoors. I'm fortunate that I grew up just a few hours north of Manhattan, just far enough outside the city to be in a rural   area. And I go there a lot. I hunt, I hike, I ski. So that's kind of my reprieve and that's what I've done. Even throughout college. I'd always kind of explore and go back home. Yeah. Between, between outdoor activities and exercise. That's that's, that's how I maintain my balance, but I love what I do. I show up to work and everybody that I work with is super excited to be there. We're constantly like building things and it's really stimulating. So that's really where most of my fun is that work.

[00:20:31,790] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: Well, keeping that in mind then what's a place that you go for new information to stay current in your work? And you mentioned some of the folks that you'll listen to you like on YouTube and their academic pieces. Are there any other places
that you prefer to look to?

[00:20:46,385] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's a few media sources that I am subscribed to. Ag Funder, Urban Ag, Science Daily, Vertical Farming Daily, and even Greenhouse Grower or like more traditional agricultural media sources. But yeah, those Urban Ag News, Vertical Farm Daily, very popular. I think those are great. Because it kind of brings in information from a lot of places and then you can start to find other helpful resources.

[00:21:24] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: Yea. Using those as a jumping off point to follow whatever rabbit hole you might need to follow that day. 

[00:21:30,100] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Matt, if you were not doing this work right now, what would you be doing and which is closest to what you dreamed up when you were a child?
[00:21:38,870] MATTHEW GELLERT: If I was not doing this work right now. I mean, as a child, like when I was really young, when I probably started to know that I want it to be an engineer. I was really interested in like cars and automotive manufacturing and that's kinda what I thought I'd do. But as I grew up, again, like in a rural agricultural town, I developed a connection to nature. And so I'd probably, at this point, I would probably run a more traditional agricultural farm or a mix. I kinda wanna have a bit of everything indoor under glass, outdoors. That's kinda what I'm interested in now, I think a longer-term vision. It's like a large part of what we do is try and make designs that are very manufacturable and functional. And that's my favorite part of the process, of the development process. And so my dream is to one day have a large shop where we can manufacturer just about anything on a prototype scale and help other people develop their products. So that's, that's probably the long-term vision. But I'll always want to have a connection to agriculture, my own farm, a victory garden, something.
 
[00:23:00,740] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Excellent. I love that dream. Great. Well, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and all of this. Yeah. I don't even know what to say. This is so exciting. I have so many more questions that we got this. Let's wrap this up, Tracy.
[00:23:18,020] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: I'll do it, okay. Well, Matt, thank you so much for all of the time that you've spent with us today. I think we personally just find this intersection to be so, so interesting and unexpected. And we look forward to sharing with everybody the resources that you have given to us and we hope to talk to you again in the future. Thank you.
[00:23:40,730] MATTHEW GELLERT: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you both. Anytime you want to come and visit a Square Roots farm, I'm, I'm happy to arrange something.

[00:23:48,080] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Sounds great. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you.

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[00:23:50,840] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Join us for the next episode where we'll be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable and more sustainable world.

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