Title: Leading the Way for Technology Access and Equity: Christine Chang ‘04

[00:00:06,280] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Welcome to the Engineering Career Conversations. I'm Christa Downey, Director of the Engineering Career Center at Cornell University. 

[00:00:14,220] TRACI NATHANS-KELLY: And I'm Traci Nathans-Kelly, Director of the Engineering Communications Program. We are excited to bring you this forum where we will host lively conversations that we hope will inspire you. 

[00:00:27,800] CHRISTA DOWNEY: I'm here today with Christine, a mechanical engineering graduate from Cornell University, whose career spans work at NASA Johnson Space Center, Boeing, and in science education and policy. Christine is now in a doctoral program at the University of Colorado Boulder, where she investigates human robot collaboration and communication supported via augmented reality, particularly in high risk environments. As you'll hear in this episode, Christine is deeply invested in increasing inclusion, equity, and justice in education and STEM fields. I'm glad to have her here today. So why don't you start by telling us more about your current work, specifically. What are you doing and what does this look like on a day to day basis? 

[00:01:14,270] CHRISTINE CHANG: Sure, Yeah.  So currently I am a Ph.D. student. I go to the University of Colorado Boulder. I work in the Collaborative AI and Robotics Laboratory. I'm getting my Ph.D. in Computer science. I do research on human-robot interaction. This is a pretty broad field that can be lots of different things. But I am especially interested in looking at the human side of things. And how we can improve the ways that humans can communicate and understand robots and vice versa. How can we make robots more interpretable and understandable by humans? Day to day, this looks like a lot of different things. It can be building a system that I'm going to use in an experiment with humans and robots. It can be creating that experiment, deciding how I want to test by different hypotheses. Writing, lots of writing. Whether it's writing code or writing papers, as well as reading. Then in addition to that, I do lots of different mentorship and service work and advising of undergrads and other graduate students. I work on different committees in the department. I've served on the Computer Science Graduate Student Association as the Anti-Racism and Inclusion chair. In that capacity, I worked with faculty in the department as well as across the college and the university. Lots of things like that as well. 

[00:03:10,059] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Excellent. Can you tell us about your path that got you to where you are today? 

[00:03:14,760] CHRISTINE CHANG: Yeah, When I start telling this story, I like to go all the way back to high school because I feel like that's where it started. I hope that's okay. When I was in high school I saw the movie, Apollo 13. If you've seen this movie, you know there's a scene where they're trying to solve a problem on the space capsule. Their carbon dioxide levels are rising faster than they had anticipated. The scene is a bunch of engineers in Houston in a room. And they throw a bunch of stuff out on the table. And some guy says, we have to make this fit into the hole for this using nothing but that. I saw that scene and I was like, that is what I want to do and I want to do it at NASA. I kind of I didn't know what that meant at the time. Like, I didn't know that that meant I needed to become an engineer and study aerospace and mechanical engineering. But I figured it out and I was early enough on in high school that I could join my high school robotics team to make sure that this was actually something I wanted to do. It was only like the second year that the robotics team had existed, and it was pretty new. But I did that and I loved it. It was awesome. We participated in something called the First Robotics Competition. It was a relatively new competition at that time. And then I decided, okay, I want to work at NASA that probably means like aerospace engineering or mechanical engineering. And that's what I decided I wanted to do in college. I chose Cornell because I knew that not only could I get a great mechanical engineering education, but I could also do lots of other things like take classes in writing and Spanish and all other things that I'm also interested in. Then when I was an undergrad, one of the other reasons I chose Cornell is because of the co-op program. I did that. I did actually three or four different co-op tours. Johnson Space Center in Houston. And then they offered me a job at graduation. I took that job and moved to Houston. I got to work on all sorts of cool projects, including training to be a flight controller in mission control. I got to work on pyrotechnics testing and design. The last thing I did at JSC was work on a system to utilize the lunar regolith, the dirt on the moon, and turn it into breathable oxygen. That was an incredible experience. But at some point, I decided I wanted to try living in places that were not Houston. And so I got a job at Boeing Commercial Airplanes in Seattle. And I worked there for a few years. And at that point, I kind of - I knew even when I was in college that I was interested in education and teaching. And I ended up moving to Boise, Idaho for a little bit. And I took one course at Boise State University and decided that I really wanted to get my Master's in education. And so that's what I did. And through that, through the connections that I made through that program, I ended up getting a teaching position at a school in Boise. And I mostly taught in the junior high level math and science and engineering classes, but I got to teach anything from kindergarten math to like engineering and physical science for ninth graders. So it was a really unique experience. And I loved that. I did that for a few years and and then I decided I wanted to work at a higher level. Not just higher education, but also impacting more people than just the students in my classroom. I got a job at Boise State University and I got to work in an office called, at the time, it was called the Institute for STEM and Diversity Initiatives. Through that, I got to not only work with faculty and students on campus and help them participate in different types of design competitions and help them make connections to teachers in the community, but then I also got to work with those teachers in the community. And professional development type things as one of the things I'm most proud of in my life, which is I started a robotics team for high school girls. This robotics team was based at the university, but anyone who could make it to our meetings was welcome to join. But it was geared towards girls in ninth through 12th grade. That team still exists today. It has expanded to include students of all genders. I'm super proud of the fact that many of those girls have gone on to study engineering in college. Then at that point, I really enjoyed working in higher ed. I knew that if I wanted to advance and higher ed, I would probably needed a Ph.D. In recruiting mentors for the robotics team, it was very apparent - we know this, we know that the research says this, and just from my own experiences, I know this firsthand. But it was very apparent when trying to find mentors that there are so few females, especially in computer science and the technology sector of STEM. I decided that I wanted to study computer science for my Ph.D. It had been so long since I got my mechanical engineering degree, I was like, well, I'd probably have to re-learn a bunch of that stuff anyway, so I might as well learn something entirely new. So that's how I ended up studying CS for my Ph.D. Yeah, here I am. I'm planning on graduating within the next year, probably next summer. It's probably a longer story than you were expecting, but that's my story. 

[00:10:08,279] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Well, it's great and again, just the progression. I think it's a fascinating journey and I like it when people's journeys are not linear. I think it tells a more interesting story. And I think that it allows the individual to bring a more interesting perspective, you know, into the work that you're doing. So I think all of those experiences are probably informing the work that you're doing right now and will continue to do. 

[00:10:33,480] CHRISTINE CHANG: Yeah, definitely. As far as you know, I mean, I didn't talk a lot about my experience in, in my Ph.D. program, but yeah, I think that all of my prior experiences definitely kind of,  not just informed, but you know, guided that process. In the different choices I've made in terms of the research I'm doing or the different, you know, external activities I've participated in - the internships and fellowships. 

[00:11:07,459] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Absolutely. So in terms of what you'll do with this, right, I think about you're doing this exciting work and there are so many possibilities for how you can make an impact with this work. Ultimately, what are you most interested in? How would you like to make the greatest impact with the work that you're doing? 

[00:11:28,160] CHRISTINE CHANG: Thank you for asking this question because that is really at the heart of my work. My goal is to figure out how to make an impact and improve our world. That sounds very cliche or idealistic, but I think that everyone can do that on whatever level they're capable of. What I want to do when I graduate is work in technology policy. Over the past few years, in addition to my, you know, very technical computer science research, I also have been working in different areas influencing policy decisions. So I got to participate in the Colorado Science and Engineering Policy Fellowship a few summers ago. Through doing that, I proposed some facial recognition legislation in Colorado. And that is - a version of that - has been signed into law by the governor. And then this past summer I interned with the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, NTIA, there a federal agency and their policy office is basically the principal adviser to the President on telecommunications and information. So this includes things, broadband, and internet and privacy and cybersecurity. So many different things. I got to work with them this summer and do work on AI, accountability policy and digital discrimination and things like this. So I'm really excited about continuing in that same direction and working with folks who are influencing technology policy at the federal level and beyond. 

[00:13:35,230] CHRISTA DOWNEY: I love it. When I hear you say that, equity comes to mind as the thing where, an area where you can have a huge impact with this policy. 

[00:13:45,930] CHRISTINE CHANG: Yes, for sure. I feel like that has been through line my entire life, ideas of equity and inclusion. And I think that certainly one of the things that attracted me most to both the internship this summer as well as the particular research proposal that I did for the State of Colorado is the idea that I could make things more equitable. And make technology more equitable and increase access to technology and the internet and all of these things. That is something that has to be, I think that is something you cannot separate from technology policy, is equity. That is part of the basis of why we need to improve tech policy in this country, in the world. I believe very strongly that technology is a human right and that there are many aspects of tech policy that are very easy to look at from a human rights perspective. And if we do that, then the answers become very clear about what we need to do to make progress. 

[00:15:31,749] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Yeah, it's important work. I'm so glad that you're working on this. So thinking about young people who are maybe in high school, maybe in college, maybe thinking about graduate school, or just starting in graduate school. But they're interested in this field. They're interested maybe in the, you know, equity in AI. But more, you know, plan to stay more on the technical side and not get into the policy as much. What might this group of people do, broadly speaking, to just, you know, bring more awareness. What are the resources? What are the communities where they should go, where this is being talked about? You know, how might you know a young person who cares about the issue and wants to be on the technical side of things, just stay more aware? Do you see where I'm going with this question? 

[00:16:21,280] CHRISTINE CHANG: Yes, yes, yes. So there's so many resources. We definitely need more. I mean, I would argue that anyone who works in computer science should be concerned with this issue. But if you are already interested or curious, there's lots of different resources for someone who's in computer science already or working in technology. There is a conference called Fairness Accountability and Transparency, or FACT, that has existed for quite a while now. And so this is a venue for publishing all sorts of papers about anything that's related to fairness, accountability, and transparency in terms of technology and computer science. Many of these publications are extremely technical, some are less so in terms of how much basic knowledge you need to have about computer science in order to understand the paper. I think that also there's a conference called We Robot that I was fortunate to attend just like a couple of months ago. They actually bring together technical folks, people in law, people in policy and ethics, to all have conversations around how robotics in particular, but also AI impacts those different areas and how all of those ideas are intertwined. And one thing I really love about this particular conference is that it's a workshop style. And so you get feedback from people who are not necessarily in your field, but who think about these same concepts from their perspective. It really forces you to think more about how your work can be received by folks who aren't just in your specific tiny little research area. So these are some of the things that I would definitely encourage folks to look for. And then once you start reading these papers or looking at who they cite, your network, just kind of branches, right? Yeah, I think that's probably a good start. Then, especially since we're having, this is an engineering conversation. If you're an engineer, I would say, reach out to folks who are in the law school. That's another way that I've gotten to expand my thinking around this area, is I talk a lot with the folks at Colorado Law. And they have a center that's focused around technology, policy, and ethics. Many universities have that as well. I would encourage you to get involved with that side of things too. It's fun being the engineer in a room of lawyers. You learn a lot about law. Then they also turn to you to learn more about the technical side. 

[00:19:46,660] CHRISTA DOWNEY: I love that. I'm always talking with students about building their network in one on one conversations. And, you know, offering workshops on this topic. And encouraging people to build the network out beyond people like you, right? You want a diverse group of people in your network. I firmly believe everybody needs a lawyer in their network. You need people, right? You need people with, you know, who have these different backgrounds and different ways of looking at the world and experiencing the world in their daily work. And yeah, that's how we move forward and grow. 

[00:20:20,360] CHRISTINE CHANG: Yes, I agree, 110% like I feel like, you know, when I was telling my story of how I arrived at where I am now, every single step along the way was certainly influenced by folks in my network. Like it wasn't just me making these decisions in a vacuum. It was, oh, well I know this person or I've seen that this is possible or oh, I wonder if you so and so knows about an opportunity. It's those connections that have helped me along my path. In terms of the diversity of your network, the more diverse your network is, the more opportunities you're going to have. The more ideas you're going to be presented with. That you may not have thought of otherwise and might set you on a new course. 

[00:21:18,650] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Does anything come to mind as a particular idea of maybe an opportunity, maybe even not necessarily an opportunity for a new job or the next thing, but a collaboration where you are. Does something come to mind of how your network supported you in a collaboration or partnership? 

[00:21:35,829] CHRISTINE CHANG: Gosh, there's so many. I'm just trying to think of like one of the best ones to share. It's hard to say. When I first started at CU at the University of Colorado, I, I started with one particular advisor. Sadly, he had cancer when I started, and I knew this. And I came in knowing that this partnership sadly end. And unfortunately, he passed away in my second semester of grad school. It was a really sad loss. His name was Mike Eisenberg and he did amazing research with kids and technology. Unfortunately, he was one of the few people who did that or really the only one who did that work at the University of Colorado. And so I had to find another advisor and I ended up switching research areas entirely. But because I had already gotten involved with a student group on campus that was very tangential to my research, it was just something that I was interested in, it was called NASA SUITS. And SUITS was an acronym for space suit user interface technologies for students. The idea was that you build an augmented reality heads up display for astronauts to use on spacewalks or even just on the space station, or doing whatever kind of work they needed to get done. Through this, I learned more about augmented reality and how useful that could be. That was what set me on course for my research that I'm doing now, which is much more about using different technologies to facilitate human-robot interactions. And one of those technologies is augmented reality. When I first met with the person who would become my new advisor, my new Ph.D. advisor, that was the idea that I pitched him. I was like, what do you think about using AR, augmented reality to facilitate communication between humans and robots? And what are some interesting questions we can ask around that? Having that opportunity and having that network of folks definitely informed my next steps in my research, for sure. 

[00:24:31,560] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Thinking about informing your next steps, what classes at Cornell had the greatest impact on your career? 

[00:24:39,750] CHRISTINE CHANG: Oh, wow. Gosh, this is a cool question. It's been so long. I definitely, I don't even remember like the course number or the official name, but it was our design class that we take sophomore year, where you first get put into a group and you have to actually implement some of the things that you've been learning and apply them to a real project. And you get to design it and machine it, and defend all of the decisions that you've made around it. I'll be completely honest here, I did not do well. I feel like after the project was over and I got the feedback from our professors, I was like, oh, that's what I should have done. That was where the learning actually came in. You know, I don't think that that's a bad thing. That's okay. Like sometimes that's what has to happen in order for you to learn the lessons that you needed to learn. And then I took that into my co op experience and was able to say, okay, now I know how I need to apply these things that I've learned. And you know, how this iterative process works and why we need to keep asking these kinds of questions. It's not that I did great in the class. I think I did probably average, or maybe slightly below average. But the lessons that I learned from that class were invaluable. And I think about them all the time. And as I've gone on to teach engineering to junior high students and high schoolers and now college students as well, I recall that experience a lot. 

[00:26:42,590] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Excellent. I love that story. I love that you're able to appreciate. And even in the moment, it sounds like you were able to appreciate the learning for what it is. It's the learning process. I love it. So along those lines, what advice do you have for undergraduates? Maybe sophomores in particular. 

[00:27:00,470] CHRISTINE CHANG: Yeah. Well, you know, as I just shared, you know, my sophomore design class, you know, didn't go probably as one might have hoped. You know, you were very gracious in saying I probably reflected in the moment, maybe that's true, but like I think it hit me hard. I struggled in my sophomore year. You're taking a lot of hard courses. I definitely questioned whether I should stay an engineer. Fortunately, I had this goal in mind that I shared before, that I really wanted to work at NASA. And I had applied for co-op positions. But I was really questioning myself and my choices that I had made. I thought maybe I should just switch majors and do something "easier". I talked to some advisors, some academic advisors, and they were like, why don't you just just wait it out. Keep working, see how this semester ends and then make your decision. By the end of the semester, I had gotten my co-op offer from Johnson Space Center. And I was like, okay, think should stick with this and see how it goes from that. My advice to other sophomores who may be feeling similarly, is to follow your passions. I knew that, you know, working on something that supported space exploration and was interesting in terms of getting to design new things and work on inspiring projects, that was what I was passionate about. I think that is my advice to them, to follow your passions. And you know what? It might be the case that your passions lead you elsewhere. But that's okay too. And I hope that it's obvious from my story that, you know, I didn't take that job and then stay there forever. I allowed my interests to kind of lead me on a different path and, you know, I've come back to being in an engineering college again. And I think that's okay too. So I think my biggest advice is to stick with it and also listen to your heart. Listen to your passion. 

[00:29:49,849] CHRISTA DOWNEY: Very nice. Well, this has been fun and I better let you get back to the important work that you're doing. So we're going to sign off of this recording. It was great. 

[00:30:00,589] CHRISTINE CHANG: Yeah, thank you so much. 

[00:30:07,199] CHRISTA DOWNEY: If you are enjoying these conversations, please follow and review on your favorite platform. Join us for the next episode where we will be celebrating excellence and innovation among engineers whose impact contributes to a healthier, more equitable, and more sustainable world.